Guardian Prize 26,471 by Picaroon

by

This was a really tough puzzle with an appropriate mini-theme.

The theme, which was easy to get, was “BLACK AND WHITE”, and that was almost all there was for some of the definitions.  Many of the other definitions were subtle, not to say cryptic, and there was some interesting wordplay.  Many thanks, Picaroon for the workout.

completed grid
Across
1 WRITTEN
Designer of buildings to keep one dry in 9? (7)
1 TT in WREN.  I found this ridiculously hard, presumably because of the very cryptic definition.
5 SCRUPLE
Doubt place is beset by horrible curse (7)
PL(ace) in *CURSE.
10 BEST
Order he’s forgotten for cream (4)
BE(he)ST.
11 HOLLANDERS
Whoops welcoming Fancy Dan’s fans wearing orange? (10)
*DAN in HOLLERS.  Easy enough, once you can see the definition.
12 GORDON
Brown‘s good (and gold) to clothe yourself in (6)
G OR DON.  A straightforward charade, but again it was a question of spotting the definition.  I wasted a lot of time on words with TAN in.
13 CLEAR-CUT
Caught tragedy bowdlerised in 9 (5-3)
C(aught) (King) LEAR CUT.  Another very cryptic definition.
14 ESTATE CAR
People reversing around country in vehicle (6,3)
STATE in RACE (rev).
16 CHESS
Boxes, losing tense contest in 9 (5)
CHES(t)S.  You have a little more help with the definition here, but have to see that “boxes” is a noun, not a verb.
17 ZEBRA
Split, Zagreb but not great 9 thing (5)
*ZA(g)REB.  I’m not happy with “Split,” as an anagram indicator.  As both are cities in Croatia I wondered if there was a reference to that country’s chequerboard flag (only I now realise that it’s red and white, not black and white).
19 ADVANTAGE
Utility bill with name and energy covering front (9)
VAN in AD TAG E.
23 WOMANISH
Fancy entertaining old fellow, fit for the opposite sex (8)
O(ld) MAN in WISH.
24 SOARED
Therefore a colour for a rose is rose? (6)
SO A RED.  A clever charade, I thought.
26 JUBILANTLY
Month in which politician backs worker gladly (10)
LIB(rev) ANT in JULY.
27 GREY
Grand foreign monarch’s 9 mixture (4)
G(rand) REY.  A do’h moment when I finally worked it out.
28 ASUNDER
Paper splits English and German articles into pieces (7)
SUN between A and DER (German definite article).
29 ADDRESS
Before this speech he produces a crown, perhaps (7)
(he)AD-DRESS.  I can’t remember encountering this sort of word play in a daily cryptic before; it’s more characteristic of an Azed puzzle.  The fact that the definition is not at the extreme end of the clue adds to the difficulty.
Down
2 RHETORS
Shorter bursts for classical speakers (7)
*SHORTER.  An unfamiliar word, but obvious from the association with rhetoric.
3 TOTED
Bore child, a small boy (5)
TOT ED(ward).  My last one in, only solvable when I had all the crossing letters, yet it turned out to be a straightforward charade.
4 ENHANCE
Better send the dancer to strip off (7)
Inner letters (stripping off the outer ones) of “sENd tHe dANCEr”.  Arguably “to strip off” is too cryptic to be really fair and should have something extra to indicate to the solver what is required.  Using “better” as a verb added to the subtlety of the clue.
6 CRAVEN
We’re told seabird is yellow (6)
Sounds like “sea raven” – or might, if it were spelled out.
7 UNDERSHOT
Running due north and south, didn’t reach target (9)
*(DUE NORTH S).
8 LARRUPS
Two Republicans standing in the French sun, getting tans (7)
 I had this as R R in LA UPS(uninterruptible power supply), but Gaufrid suggests what I think is the better parsing of RR UP in LA S, where S = SUN.
9 BLACK AND WHITE
Oddly bold account with naked cavorting, but not Fifty Shades? (5,3,5)
Odd letters of BoLd, AC *(WITH NAKED).  When this was the first clue to yield, and gave the key to the theme, I thought I was in for a quick solve.  I was wrong!
15 AFRO-ASIAN
Like Scot south of Barnet coming from continental regions (4-5)
AS IAN after (south of in a down clue) AFRO.  The false capitalisation of Barnet threw me off the scent for some time.
18 ECONUTS
Rip off ripe, firm bananas — they’re intensely green (7)
(rip)E CO(mpany) NUTS.
20 ASSAYED
Tried appeal about remark by journalist (7)
SA (sex appeal – rev), SAY ED.
21 GEE-GEES
More than one jade gnome’s outside, say — look around (3-4)
G(nom)E, E.G. SEE(rev).  Quite a lot packed into this clue.
22 PIRATE
Silver‘s seemingly good grade (6)
PI(ous) RATE.  The reference is of course to Long John Silver in Treasure Island.
25 ANGER
Nettle from mountains, but right at the bottom (5)
RANGE with the R at the end.
*anagram

61 comments on “Guardian Prize 26,471 by Picaroon”

  1. I am heartened that you found 1a hard bridgesong, dreadfully obvious in retrospect. Thank you and Picaroon for exercising me more than most.

  2. I didn’t like this as much as other Picaroon puzzles.
    Don’t get me wrong, he’s one of my favourite setters.
    My last one in (after a few days!) was ZEBRA.
    Now I see why.
    (a) G is not Great (b) ‘split’ is a dubious anagram indicator (c) a ZEBRA is not a thing

    Still, a lot to enjoy although I find it always a bit annoying when my first entry is the gateway clue.
    While I liked CRAVEN (6d), it is also a bit un-Picaroon as one has to split ‘seabird’.

    Thanks bridgesong.

  3. Yes, 1 across. I was working for a long time on the theory there must be an architect ‘Grittey’, only to eventually try the opposite construction and see the obvious. My LOI.

    This was not that difficult for a prize. I seem to be better at picking out the literals than the blogger, that is the one thing that I have an instinct for….usually.

    I think we have had quite a few clues in the style of 29 in the Times, particularly in some of the more difficult puzzles. It’s the sort of thing Anax would do.

  4. Thanks to Picaroon and bridgesong. Couldn’t explain 15a. I gather a barnet is an afro? I’m on vacation
    in Honolulu and didn’t bring my Chambers. Enjoyed the puzzle.

    Aloha…

  5. Thank you bridgesong and Picaroon. I liked the use of the theme here – it contributed to the puzzle without making anything a write-in. 29a was unusual but I’d be happy to see more like it. I also liked 15d despite the use of Ian as a a Scot – he really is well past retirement age now.

  6. Very enjoyable solve – a real slow-burner – but steady – not too slow. A bit of extra thought always made the next one yield.

    Many thanks both.

    I struggle to understand what is so difficult about splitting a word in two as a possible route to an answer. Likewise 29a – just read the clue – it says what it means and means what it says. “This” commonly keys the answer in sensible puzzles as well as (so we’re (endlessly) told) Azed ones.

    @GP (#4) – barnet (rhyming slang from Barnet fair) is yer ‘air – hence a hairdo – an afro is also a hairdo.

  7. Jolly Swagman, once more you don’t seem to see my point.
    I personally had no problems with splitting sea/bird but if you have any idea of what kind of setter Picaroon is you wouldn’t expect him to do a thing like this. He’s quite Ximenean, ya know.
    Meanwhile, 17ac is problematic or?

  8. Thanks
    Did this in two bursts, the first delivering the theme early via ZEBRA – but soon after and wrongly I assumed 13A would be ‘chess-set’ and that slowed things up. Puzzled by the ‘send’ in 4D. By a complete fluke I knew the barnet/hair connection for 15D: it must have flummoxed other non-Brits. Liked this, so thanks Picaroon.

  9. Just yawn politely, Sil.

    I can only assume that Swagman likes this puzzle rather than its setter, since Picaroon most of the time, or so it seems, has a very keen sense of fairness (as you say). That would be anathema to JS, as far as we can tell from his ongoing remarks.

    The ‘split’ anagind I have no problem with: it’s the G = great I can’t stand, since it’s not on my list of single-letter indicators. I fancy SPLIT it as the infinitive, or as adjectival (my preference actually), after which the cryptic grammar flows unstoppably.

    Yes okay Barnet for Afro OTOH is a great sin indeed, whereof first it is rhyming slang and second, in this case, DBE: Brown too is DBE: ENHANCE, well, a little bit tricky. But those items were surely changed by someone else, some Farringdon goblin or other, who can say. I can’t see anything else up with it, save to say that it was an annoyingly interesting, excellent and well-wrought puzzle by a very talented competitor.

    Jolly, if you like mistakes, fly over and see my band at 7pm on Tuesday at The Comedy Pub on Oxendon Street in Piccadilly. Oh hell, ANYONE can come! Anyone! Or at least someone? Oh God why did I choose prog. And drums. And crosswords …

  13. A very slow solve that got picked up and put down many times through the week – last in was WRITTEN and I never did get GEEGEES.

  14. Thanks bridgesong. Molonglo @ 8: it flummoxed me all right and I still have doubts about its fairness. I thought bridgesong had explained about ‘send’.

  15. I enjoyed this very much, and thought it fitting for a prize puzzle. I don’t see any difficult with “split” as an anagrind, nor with g = great (for the reason that sidey gives @12).

    Lots of fun here!

  17. I really enjoyed this. Perfect for a prize I thought.

    I didn’t think it was as hard as some seem to have. Once one had the theme it was fairly straightforward with some nice clues.

    I also have no problem with “split” as an anagram indicator. We seem to accept a lot of others which are much dodgier!

    As far as G=”great”, of course there is no problem. (I didn’t realise there was a list of acceptable one letter abbreviations which was set in stone. (can someone send it to me?). I thought it was OK just to use something that was in general use. I thought “GB” was a fairly well known abbreviation but if it’s not in the list 😉 . (Perhaps it actually stands for “Grumpy Bloggers”)

    Also if a zebra isn’t a thing what is it? Surely we include “everything” in crosswords?

    Thanks to bridgesong and Picaroon

  18. I thought this was lovely, and am surprised to see so many niggles here. I find that if a setter has grace and style I am happy to forgive them stretching the boundaries a bit (eg ‘Split’ may not technically mean ‘rearrange’, but it’s so obvious what it’s there for…and anyway the whole field of anagrinds has surely long since left the world of explicability).

    SOARED was a joy.

    Thanks both.

  19. @Sil

    There is no such thing as “mainly ximenean” – like pregnancy, you either are or you aren’t, unless you’re Schrödinger’s cat that is. Comparing the two best-defined cryptic grammars, those of McNutt (aka Ximenes) and Barnard, the former one is a subset of the latter. Consequently a setter might produce many puzzles that appear to be ximenean and then one day surprise you with a device permitted by Barnard but not by Ximenes.

    Of course there are other possibilities – Picaroon may have started out being intentionally ximenean to avoid running the gauntlet of ludicrous quibbles from the ximenean conspiracy in their endless attempts to delude the solving public into thinking that only they have a cryptic grammar and that anyone else’s version is pure anarchy.

    Another possibility again is that Picaroon may have seen the error of his former ways.

    Probably too a rookie setter is likely to be subject to more editorial scrutiny (even on the Guardian) than an established one – and so may self-censor in his early days.

    There’s also the possibility that a setter might have his own set of “rules” but treat them as guidelines rather than immutable laws, relying on the intelligence of the solver do deduce what his intentions must have been – although that doesn’t always work of course.

    No probs for me with the anagrind nor the abbr in 17a although it’s obvious what the problems are for some. Clearly the setter wanted to share with us the coincidence that Split (like Zagreb) is a place in Croatia – for a smile and maybe to hide the anagrind a bit. I would agree that at first sight that would appear to be a bending of what one might have guessed were his normal rules – maybe so – hardly startling – although I think, for that reason, I didn’t enter it until I had all the crossers.

    Blimey – I just previewed all that – I promise I am not trying to outdo your record for the longest post of all time. I’m sure your title is safe 🙂

  20. bridgesong, now that I have furthered my education about Barnet Fair, I’m confused about ‘The false capitalisation of Barnet’.

  21. Re GB yes Sidey, but we’ve been THERE before approx. 1 million times in the ‘fairness or otherwise of hacked bits of longer abbrevs used as single-letter abbrevs’ conversation, wine-tasting and book-signing event.

    And in that regard, is it not about time that we had another London meet? I can’t see what’s wrong with everyone attending a prog gig on Tuesday at 7pm, but apart from that I have nothing in my diary.

    I don’t think there are any errors in Picaroon’s ways former or otherwise.

  22. Sorry for being dim but could someone explain in Janet and John terms why 1ac is WRITTEN.

    Also why does VAN mean FRONT in 19ac ?

  23. Count me as another who didn’t find this as tricky as some of you seem to have done, and I don’t have any quibbles. I confidently typed in WRITTEN at 1ac as soon as I read the clue even though I obviously had no idea what the theme was at that point. I can’t recall having seen RHETOR(S) before (although I did know the longer “rhetorician”) but it was the most sensible arrangement of the anagram fodder and clearly related to “rhetoric”.

  26. I found this quite difficult but in a good way. All went in eventually although I couldn’t parse BEST,my LOI, so thanks for that. GEEGEES was brilliant and took me a long time to get but I laughed out loud when I did.
    Most enjoyable.
    Thanks Picaroon.

  27. Thanks all for your comments – I seem to have sparked something of a debate among the usual suspects with my comments about SPLIT as an anagrind. i have now checked the annotated solution and Gaufrid was right about LARRUPS. On the issue of the false capitalisation of Barnet, it may be derived from Barnet Fair, but when used on its own (as slang for hair) it isn’t usually capitalised.

  28. split as an anagrind seems fair enough. Split is from the Middle Dutch Nautical term splitten, the OCED gives split n. 8 intr. (of a ship) be wrecked.

  30. OK, I surrender when it comes to ‘split’.

    But the black and white ‘thing on the road is officially called ‘zebra crossing’ – at least that is what the dictionaries come up with, there’s no mentioning at all of shortening it.
    In my home country it’s indeed just called zebra, and perhaps in England too, don’t know. If so, fine.
    However, Chambers, Collins and the like only say ‘zebra’ is an animal, butterfly or fish. In that sense, no ‘thing’ for me.

    I actually cannot understand why solvers accept G = great.
    Abbreviations should be accepted stand-alone abbreviations.
    The GB example (sidey @12) is an obvious choice to justify G = great but I can’t agree. So, from now on K = kingdom (think: UK)?
    As Paul B says @21, we’ve had this discussion many times before.
    The world of abbreviations can be a tricky area. Not so long ago, in an FT prize puzzle, we had E = England. Right?
    Anyway, nothing grumpy about my post. I just like to have things clear.
    And for me it is now.

  31. Many thanks to bridgesong for the very fine blog.

    The black and white references are just the signalled part of the theme; its complement is the various references to colours in other clues. My criteria were that the colours should be used as definitions and that they should have other meanings, i.e. not just names for colours (cream, Brown, rose, yellow, tan, green, jade, Silver). There are also references, although simply as colours, to orange, gold and red.

    I was originally going to use TOVARICH as the solution for 23 across, thus allowing for a definition based on red, but I thought it might be too obscure.

    Picaroon.

  35. Thanks Bridgesong. Had failed to complete so your excellent blog most welcome.
    I don’t see anything wrong with Zebra unless you have Ximinean tendencies. Once you have the theme, surely the answer is not in doubt, ie it is solvable, a criterion that I think Auraucaria applied.

  36. Thanks Picaroon and Bridgesong.

    I did not get very far with this last Saturday, but with some use of the check button managed to get most of the answers today. The blog was a real help with parsing.

    LARRUPS was a new word.

    WRITTEN, CLEAR-CUT, CHESS, GREY, CRAVEN and many others were great clues.

  37. OK, I am happy to surrender once more 🙂 .
    I’m never too old to learn (re 32, 33 and to lesser extent 34).

  39. Picaroon, thanks very much for dropping in. Kicking myself for not spotting the coloured part of the theme.

  42. Quite a challenge, but it gradually came out: 11ac one of the last. Plenty to enjoy here. Didn’t know the rhyming slang, and missed the colour theme.

    G certainly stands for great in g-g-grandfather (an expression not unfamiliar to family historians).

  44. An enjoyable challenge as ever from Picaroon – from what I remember the SE corner took me longest.

    Thanks to Picaroon and bridgesong

  45. I really liked this and I am glad I came to the blog so late as the conversation has filled in all the potholes.

    I think it was real ‘proper’ prize crossword requiring either Only Connect levels of largely useless knowledge of relatively specialist words (RAY for a king, JADE for a [work] horse) or the nous to realise what these must be, check them out and log them in the brain for…er, Only Connect levels of largely useless knowledge for future solves.

    I am afraid all the argument about Ximenean this and Barnardian that is a load of old tosh in relation to puzzles in a newspaper/online source and blog offered to the general public. You need to start your own private setting and solving club. How many regular posters here compared with how many people who try to solve Guardian crosswords?

    Grumble, yes; discuss, yes; but vitriol, anger or even just annoyance: for goodness’ sake, no. Our task, should we decide to accept it, is to enter a set of words (letters, even) that correspond with what the setter has set, helped by his or her clues. With the exception of some justified ‘complaint’ about Wednesday’s Hilary/Hillary error, I say, ‘if it annoys or angers you, perhaps you should look for another hobby’…

    …said the jazz drummer and banjoist, restored coach owner/driver, model railway builder, enthusiastic cook and, most tragic of all, accountant to pay for all the former. Mostly largely solitary, I reflect.

    I’ll get me coat.

  48. I don’t see anything wrong with Split if you DO have Ximenean tendencies, Timon.

    God knows what people think cryptic grammar is. Apart from ‘unimportant’ (Tim Phillips).

  49. Tim (@45), I am glad you enjoyed this crossword very much.
    In my earliest post I said I didn’t. But that was only because of me, and also on the scale of Picaroon who is high in my Top 5 of favourite setters.
    I just wasn’t in the right mood after I found the BLACK AND WHITE clue straight away.
    One cannot blame Picaroon for that – it was a sound crossword.
    However, I had doubts about ZEBRA which have been dismantled (apart from G = great), and that’s what this site is there for.

    The second part of your post is about Moaners & Groaners at this site.
    Well, I started the ZEBRA discussion yesterday but this Picaroon crossword doesn’t deserve to be associated with negativism.
    I just had a question which I wanted to be answered.

    Perhaps, in your post you’re referring to the general atmosphere here.
    Yes, some solvers/bloggers are critical but positivism has the edge, in my opinion.
    Posts at the Guardian’s own website are often like balloons – they just need one needle to ….
    I prefer the tone here, mostly based on content.
    Based on how we learn from each other to understand crosswords.

    For some (perhaps, many) a crossword is already enjoyable when the solutions are gettable from the clues.
    For others, including me, there are some basic rules for writing clues.
    It’s called cryptic grammar.
    No-one’s perfect but if these rules are ignored some solvers, including me, get annoyed. Now that doesn’t mean that, when I solve a crossword together with my PinC in my local Waitrose with a free coffee, I get upset or so.
    I just think, after an enjoyable hour (or longer) of entertainment, I wouldn’t have written these things (that I didn’t like) this way.

    I can accept the odd mistake (Hillary/Hilary), I happily accept Paul doing his thing with a twinkle in the eye, I am more than happy with Boatman when leaving his oddities in the fridge.
    Actually, I am happy most of the time but I am not happy with setters saying that ‘some’ indicates ‘take the starting letters of the next few words’.
    There are limits to what you can do and you can’t do – even if the much missed Araucaria was always associated with ‘anything goes’. I think, he actually knew pretty well that it wasn’t like that.

    My attitude towards crosswords is very much embodied by a combination of yesterday’s FT and Independent puzzles.
    The FT saw Goliath (at this place known as Philistine) with some wonderful clueing off the track (but always justifiable within the rules of cryptic grammar), the Indy had Klingsor with clues that were as precise as you could possibly want.
    Both very satisfying (with our very own Paul somewhere in the middle).

    Anything goes?
    I think, it might mean different things to different solvers, and setters too.
    Phew, how cryptic is that? 🙂

    And phew#2, how long is this post?!
    Perhaps, Gaufrid should transfer it to the General Discussion section [please free to do so].

  50. @Sil – you clearly think that there is one unique correct “cryptic grammar” and your own interpretation of what it is the right one.

    That is manifestly not the case.

    If you don’t understand some of the other ones (or do understand them but dislike them) then best when you knowingly stumble across them to go elsewhere or at least keep schtum.

    I’ve been involved in many genres of music but I don’t like Punk Rock music at all – to me it’s just a lot of noise. I can tell the difference between the real thing and a Harry Hill imitation but beyond that I’m lost. Undoubtedly there are many who do like it and have views on what is good and bad within that genre.

    For me (or anyone else) to criticise a Punk Rock song on the basis that it’s a Haydn string quartet gone wrong would be absurd, so I’ll leave it to those who do appreciate the genre generally.

  51. Oops

    what it is the right one (1st sentence)
    s/b
    what it is is the right one

    Seeing two is’s together I assumed I’d (perish the thought) made a grammatical error (or typo at least) and so deleted one.

  52. Well there are many ways to write a sentence correctly, and the same is true of crossword clues. Is Sil putting forward a ‘unique cryptic grammar’? It didn’t seem so to me! There are many ways to skin THAT cat! 😀

  53. “@Sil – you clearly think that there is one unique correct “cryptic grammar” and your own interpretation of what it is is the right one”

    Nonsense. While I think that there are indeed basic rules for clueing, I never think that my interpretation is the right one. Yes, perhaps, it is the right one for me [the last two words here are not superfluous] but then always after a lot of deep thinking, comparing pluses and minuses.

    “If you don’t understand some of the other ones (or do understand them but dislike them) then best when you knowingly stumble across them to go elsewhere or at least keep schtum”

    What kind of dictatorial point of view is this?
    If I don’t understand something, I will ask questions, hoping to get answers. If I dislike something, I have the right to say that, giving reasons. I may have strong opinions but I’m never offensive [and if occasionally that is the case for some, I always apogolise]. Nobody’s going to tell me to keep schtum.

    So, JS, you have carte blanche to jump for joy, giving high praise to Otterden’s recent crossword. I simply should shut up, if I have too many critical notes? Now, come on!
    The past has made clear that the two of us are miles apart in crosswordland.
    You are who you are, fine. I have become who I am, I hope that’s also fine.
    There should be room for both.
    That’s what this wonderful site is for.

    My post @48 purely reflects my personal view.
    Perhaps, some are interested in it.
    Others may discard it as nonsense.
    Some may not even want to read it.
    I felt the need to write that post and I did.

  54. Unfortunately Jolly Swagman, who advocates absolute cryptic freedom, is in other matters far from tolerant.

    That said I’m always ready to hear his opinions. Which is most convenient as it turns out. So Sil, I don’t think you should rise to his jumbuck-baggin’ bait, but sit here with the rest of us and hope the squatter and his three troopers turn up real soon.

    I should remind posters that I am extremely tolerant.

  55. Sorry Sil – it’s not as simple as that. You call you version “pure” – implying that anything else is impure. Plain rudeness.

    You can see the sort of company you’re in – desperate B-listers resorting to sockpuppetry and offensiveness to advance their standing.

    I wonder what Rowland would have thought of all this. A bit abrupt of him to have run off to an ashram without leaving a forwarding address.

  56. “Sorry Sil – it’s not as simple as that. You call you version “pure” – implying that anything else is impure. Plain rudeness”

    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    Anything else than what I think is impure?
    If you’d like to accuse me of rudeness, please do so.
    It will only hurt you, not me.

    My posts above (and my posts, in general) are civilised contributions to this magnificent website. They are based on content, are not offensive in whatever form, respect other people’s opinions but do indeed reflect my own ideas too.
    To which I have the right.
    Most of my knowledge about crosswords I have acquired through this site, by asking questions, by showing doubt, yes, by even banging my head against the wall.

    The B-lister you’re talking about has once said about me that I was “someone with one leg on one side of the wall and the other on the other side” [or the like].
    Meaning that I often looked at things from both sides.
    I actually think, he’s right.

    You are putting me in a box that I don’t belong in.
    You’re asking me to keep shtum if I am too critical.
    But if that’s what you like me to do, fine.
    I mean, fine that you want that.
    But I won’t.

    Don’t start a war when there’s no reason to start a war.

  57. I too couldn’t find any reference to ‘pure’ in this thread. Another Swagdream, also in which it would seem even ‘B-listers’ surpass his own meagre talent. And by quite a way! But then why should he be expected to offer anything at all? He’s never shown out. At least not as himself. So don’t be so hard on yerself, cattleboy!

    Sil: you’re great. Don’t talk to this trash.

  58. Sil-
    I tend to agree with Paul B. With his first sentence @50 and the reference to “pure” JollySwagman is clearly determined to misrepresent what you say, so I don’t see the point in replying to him any more. I can’t say for sure whether he is simply trolling or thinks this is a way of winning people over to his way of setting, but if you want to see how he sets himself you can see his contributions on Alan Connor’s Guardian crossword blog. I think his clues make his position clearer than anything he’s said here.

  59. I am really not interested in continuing a discussion with committed and active ximtrolls.

    Most people on these boards accept various styles of setting and enjoy the variety.

    It is only the ximtrolls who nitpick puzzles which don’t conform to their own idea of what “cryptic grammar” should be. The usual slander (as both written and spoken (and internet hosted in whatever form)) defamation is colloquially called) of pretending that anything that goes beyond MacNutt’s cut-down approach is sloppy – or “anything goes”, as Crowther ridiculously described Araucaria’s setting in his lazy potboiler of a book some years ago.

    Sil has regularly used the terms “pure” and “not pure” on these boards to describe what he considers to be variously good and bad cluing – do your own googling if you want to check – I’ve really got better things to do – intelligent disagreement would be interesting. This is infantile.

    Anyone who thinks themselves clever on account of their having a strong understanding of cryptic grammar must be coming from a very low level of intellect. As a branch of mathematics (which is what it amounts to) it’s the most trivially easy one I’ve ever come across.

    Nice one Herb – ximtrolls normally go ad hominem quite early in the piece – and calling anti-trolls trolls is standard troll practice – so that can go around in circles forever. BTW I’ve had a few wins there – not recently, but I frequently get one of my clues mentioned and reproduced – a few weeks back I won the ST comp – and I’m only fooling around – so some of the outrages are intentional – irony – geddit.

  60. What is ‘Macnutt’s cut-down approach’? We hear of rules but I have never seen any. It is just good grammar in the cryptic readung, same as good grammar in ordinary writing. It certainly is not maths. What it is, is a ‘no-brainer’!

    😀

  61. Thanks Picaroon and bridgesong

    Wow … what a war I missed by finishing this great puzzle only today – I did start only yesterday !! A pity that the blog of such a quality work should have degenerated into a brawl like that.

    Liked the ‘black and white’ theme a lot – even more so when having the full coloured version pointed out. Finished in the NW corner with WRITTEN, RHETORS (a new word to me), GORDON and TOTED the last few in. Many clues to appreciate after having to work quite hard to unravel each of them. GEE-GEES also made me chuckle out loud when the penny dropped.

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