Guardian 26,527 / Picaroon

74 comments on “Guardian 26,527 / Picaroon”

1. Thank you Eileen, what sense did you have in mind for ‘stock’ = ‘set’ in SKILLET?

   Really enjoyed this and decided to post early to avoid having to be depressed by the now inevitable wrangling over minutiae provoked by our resident grinch.

   I was lucky with WISHFUL THINKING & RUSSIAN ROULETTE and the rest fell nicely into place.

   Favourites RAINFALL, GREBE, AMBER & (LOI) INFO.

   Thanks again to the Pirate, nice week all.

2. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen
   I’m afraid that I didn’t enjoy it as much as you did, Eileen – it was easy enough to finish, but the parsing of several passed me by (LACTOSE. ELL, PRIVATE LIFE, ELF and the OUT OF in 16d). I still don’t see why SET = STOCK in 2dn, and I don’t think that GONG = BELL in 26a.
   With a few crossers I tried JOURNALISM for 20a at first – it does have a little going for it!
   Disappointing, as my FOI (1a) remained my favourite.

3. ……oh, and I raised an eyebrow at WASTELAND = VOID – surely a void means “nothing there”, whereas a wasteland, however useless, is actually there.

4. muffin @2 Good morning. I presume you’re thinking of ‘drop’ = ‘lose’ in LACTOSE? I reasoned this as “drop the accent” or “lose the accent” for example.

   I agree with you about bell = gong, and I thought Eileen’s parse of PRIVATE LIFE, ELL & ELF were fine.

5. Thanks, Eileen.

   I couldn’t spot a theme either, though I looked quite hard for it as I went along.

   25ac elf is just German for eleven. My German teachers favourite “joke” was the German for eleven eggs.

6. [btw Fra Filippo Lippi is one of my favourite painters, but he was a very naughty monk – see:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Lippi
   The girl in question is thought to be the model for several of his Madonnas, including the one with child and two angels at the bottom of the page – possibly my favourite painting. It’s in the Uffizi in Florence.]

7. William @4 (and Eileen)
   Yes, now that Eileen has explained so well, I understand those!

8. Thanks for comments – I’m in a bit of a rush so please excuse brevity.

   Gong: – Collins: ‘a fixed, saucer-shaped bell, , as on an alarm clock, sruck by a mechanically-operated hammer; Chambers: ‘a flat bell sounded by a hammer’.

   Wasteland – Chambers: ‘a culturally or intellectually empty place or time’.

   I’m struggling a bit with set = stock but it just ‘felt’ right, somehow – as a noun rather than a verb, I think. I’m afraid I haven’t time just now to pursue it any further but maybe someone will come up with something.

9. Thanks Eileen and Picaroon. On the whole, quite satisfying, though I was held up by putting in Goldini as the composer (is there a Goldoni?) On SET = STOCK in 2dn: I wasn’t too happy with this but then I recalled that the the entry for SET in the OED is about the longest in the entire dictionary, so I would be surprised if it did not include the STOCK def.

10. Great stuff. Not often that I actually complete a Picaroon so thanks for the puzzle and the blog. Managed to parse them all as I did it apart from SET = STOCK but, as Eileen has already noted, it ‘felt right’.

11. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

    Enjoyed this very much indeed. Found myself on exactly the same wavelength as Picaroon this morning and by-and-large just grinned my way through it. Loved both 3 letter solutions especially. Last in by miles was INFO.

    Regarding STOCK = SET. The best I can come up with is either an illusion to “stock still” where something is set in a fixed position, or perhaps stock in the sense of run-of-the-mill, ordinary or off-the-peg being close to the being same inference as “set menu” or somesuch. Don’t think either quite nails it, but as others have said, it couldn’t have been anything else.

12. Thanks Eileen and Picaroon
    An excellent workout with some amusing clues. I particularly liked 1a and 12a. I had slightly mixed feelings about 8d but it certainly made me smile.

    Re set and stock. Some years ago I came across the fact that a ‘train set’ is not just a toy but can refer to the component elements of a real railway train. I wondered if (rolling) stock might be referred to here.

13. Hi Mitz

    ‘…”stock still” where something is set in a fixed position…’
    I was thinking along those lines, too.

    And, talking of lines, Tupu’s comment has just arrived. 😉 Thanks, both!

14. A treat indeed – it is my cryptic of the day – as lucky Eileen says (thank you to her) – too many ‘favourites’ to list although I did particularly like 25a. Big Thanks to Picaroon too- I do love a puzzle that leaves me with a big smile on my face.

15. Thanks Picaroon, good crossword.

    Thanks Eileen, I think it’s the stock/set response that is indicated.

    I particularly liked OUT OF DATE. Steve Bell does some outrageous cartoons of Cameron in his Bullingdon Club outfit.

16. Robi @15 has got it, I think. That’s sort of the line I was thinking of in my second possibility, but his example fits the bill much better.

17. I agree that this was an enjoyable puzzle. For some reason it usually takes me a while to get on Picaroon’s wavelength and this was no different, but once I was on it I made steady progress and finished back in the NE with the NUCLEI/LACTOSE crossers. Count me as another who wasn’t 100% convinced by set=stock. I agree with Dave Ellison@5 that the second part of the wordplay for ELF is simply that it is the German word for eleven, hence a football team.

18. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

    A most enjoyable puzzle. If there were any theme, it could be the ‘non theme’ of “The WASTE LAND”.
    The first title proposed for it by T. S. Elliot was “He do the Police in Different Voices” (the bizarre phrase is from Dickens’ novel “Our Mutual Friend”), the poem being noted for its seemingly disjointed structure. Probably just WISHFUL THINKING on my part.

19. I thought of “stock” as an adjective meaning usual or typical too, with “set menu” in mind for set=stock.

    Thesaurus.com gives “set” as a synonym for “stock”, which it defines as “commonplace”.

20. I found this absurdly hard, I think mostly because my head was not screwed on straight while I was doing this.

    Can someone explain “PI” = “seemingly holy”? Here, a PI is a detective (when it isn’t the Greek letter). I put the answer in anyway, knowing Lippi thanks to Browning.

    Out of Date was a complete mystery, not knowing about the OU toffs in question.

21. My links were broken. Ooops. Never mind the links.

22. mrpenney @21, pi is short for pious.

23. @mrpenney – “pi”, in this sense, is simply short for “pious”. Found in most dictionaries including the BRB.

24. Thanks, Eileen

    Good puzzle, which I found rather tough; 1a took me a very long time to get, so I started from the bottom and worked up. Clever and varied constructions, though I felt the surfaces weren’t all quite up to Picaroon’s best.

    ELF is simply German for eleven (‘team’ is so often XI in crosswords) as Dave Ellison @4 points out – one of my favourite clues. I also liked the &littish 28a, 16d (great image) and 23d (definition fits nicely into the surface).

    I know IMAGO only as the entomological name for an ‘adult’ insect.

25. pi is often used to mean overtly, sometimes excessively, holy – from pious?

26. pi in 4d, ‘seemingly holy’, is implying ‘hypocritically virtuous’ or ‘sanctimonious’.

27. Thanks to Eileen for the blog.

    In 5d I spent a lot of time trying to fit in a president of the USA – that is usually what ‘president’ means in a clue. Eventually I found the correct president. 🙁

28. pi is a bit of out-of-date public school slang that crossword compilers keep going because it’s so useful. Never heard of it until I started doing crosswords, but it’s one of those irritating bits of arcane knowledge that you have to learn.

29. [gladys, oh dear, it is part of my vocabulary.]

30. Perhaps as some have said not as good as Picaroon can be, but I found no real problems here. I think it is hard because some of the QM-ed bits, say OU TOFF, are too hard to spot. You just have to guess. Theoretically that is compileritis, or trying too hard, but it is a fine line in The Guardian where they are expected to stretch things all the time. Overall I enjoyed this.

31. Another fine example of a master setter’s art – plenty of wit and invention as ever from Picaroon. Last in was INFO, which was well hidden, also enjoyed many more – OUT OF DATE probably my favourite (and the OU TOFF was clear enough for me).

    Thanks to Picaroon and Eileen.

32. I think I’m missing something with 3d, could anyone explain the definition?

33. Reading back over previous posts, I noticed Cookie’s comment @18 about The WASTE LAND, and Eliot’s original title: ‘He Do The Police In Different Voices’, a quote from Dickens’s ‘Our Mutual Friend’. This is a remark by Betty Higden about the surprising degree of literacy of the character known as Mr Sloppy – not a soubriquet which would be welcome to a crossword compiler.

34. Never mind, I remembered how to google.

    van: the foremost part of a group of people moving or preparing to move forwards, especially the foremost division of an advancing military force.

    Not a meaning I’ve come across!

35. penny @34:

    ‘Van’ in this sense is a shortened form of ‘vanguard’, from the French ‘avant garde’ ( = front guard).

    ‘Van’ in the sense of a small transport vehicle is a shortened form of ‘caravan’ – also via French but ultimately from Persian (and originally a transport convoy rather than an RV, of course).

36. [Gervase, of course not. Some critics use this working title to support the theory that, while there are many different voices (speakers) in the poem, there is only one central conciousness. I only mentioned it to imply that the clues in the puzzle were all very different.]

37. I don’t get on with Picaroon’s puzzles as a rule but I enjoyed this. Either I’m finally getting on his wavelength or this was easier than usual. I had to guess ELF but that’s now been cleared up, and I wasn’t quite sure how OUT OF DATE worked. OU= Open University rather than OXFORD for me, as I used to work for the former, but it had to be right. The rest went in remarkably quickly.
    Thanks Picaroon

38. I wonder if a German rugby team is a f�nfzehn 😀

39. Thanks all
    Unlike others I did not worry about the absence of a theme.
    I was also one of the set= stock folk?, but I did recall that set can mean almost anything!
    Last in was lactose.
    Quite pleasant.

40. [Peter @37 – I find it hard to believe that the Bullingdon club has a presence in Milton Keynes – OU is a common abbreviation in Oxonian circles too]

41. As I read 5d I thought ‘why are we always to assume president is USA’ but not here, hooray!

42. As I read 5down I thought ‘why are we always to assume president is USA’ but not here, hooray!

43. [RCW @41 – I agree – your comment reminded me of Hardy’s “President of the Immortals” but there’s clearly nothing immortal about M. Hollande…]

44. Not an early start and first pass found me not concentrating so getting hardly anywhere. Back a bit later, it flowed in – loved the truncated OU TOFF, which made perfect sense to me – until 15a. I stared and stared at it until Mrs Trailman came in. “Could it be the letters for a ministry?” she said. No further hint needed.

    Don’t know German beyond 10 but the clue made sense. This is probably what it’s like when I read of those with no French struggling with a clue.

45. Hedgy @38: Ja, und ein Deutscher Baseball-Mannschaft ist ein Neun.

    Thanks to all those in the 20s up there for answering my question.

    And RC @41: I’ve often wondered the same thing about “state”: Why (when it doesn’t mean “vocalize” or “polity in general” or “condition”) is the word “state” in a crossword always one of the U.S. 50? There are all kinds of great clue possibilities for the likes of TASMANIA or CHIHUAHUA, wouldn’t you think?

46. Thanks to frenzy, in a state (8)
    State of energetic force universities found in laughter (9)

47. 14d took me ages until I realised the L at the end was only there because I’d written RUSSIAL ROULETTE.

48. Lovely puzzle, especially the two long clues. Also lime tournament, out of date. And many others.

    I was surprised 8d got away without a homophone indicator for ” I see”, and even more surprised no one has commented? Clue is solvable, but isn’t that a no-no?

    Many thanks picaroon

49. Mitz @46: brilliant!

    Dutch @48: spelling out the letters of the alphabet phonetically is an acceptable thing, of which the dictionary approves, and thus needs no special signal. But I usually see C as “cee.”

50. Dutch @48

    No no-no. The third entry for see in Chambers is the letter C.

51. Mrpenny @49 and petero @50

    Thanks

52. Dutch @48, challenge PeterO to find it in a reliable dictionary.

53. Joy throughout as ever with Picaroon.

    Loved the OU TOFF and ELEGANT.

    Thanks both.

54. 17a PRIVATE LIFE. “Secretes” must mean “contains” in the “hide” meaning of “secrete.” But “life” isn’t contained in “private.”

    “File” reversed would be “elif,” not “life”. “About” may mean “mixed up,” though.

55. Thanks to everyone for filling in for me, answering questions while I’ve been in and out all day. [Just back from hearing Dominican clergy and choirs singing Vespers in our Cathedral, while hundreds still queued outside to view King Richard’s coffin, although it should have closed at 5.30 – what an amazing week we’re having here in Leicester!]

    I think practically everything’s been covered [‘pi’ crops up fairly frequently but obviously infrequently enough for new people to come aboard meanwhile who haven’t heard of it – well worth filing away].

    In 8dn, I took IC as being text-speak [which I refuse to use, to the amusement of my grandchildren – I use full punctuation, too, of course].

56. The sort of crossword I like most – after 15 mins I was convinced it was beyond me, but another hour’s persistence meant I finished it, with the last third or so of the lies completed in 5 minutes. Thanks, Picaroon, and to Eileen and all commenters, including HH, for adding to the entertainment.

57. *lies = clues, although I’m now wondering whether that was autocorrect or my subconscious in play.

58. Hi Valentine – you posted as I was typing.

    I’ve read your post carefully and I think that’s what I said in the blog:
    ‘PRIVATE [soldier] round [secretes] a reversal [about] of FILE [data]’
    PRIVAT ELIF E

    This is a very carefully written clue, indicating both an insertion [secretes] and a reversal [about]. Picaroon uses a similar device in 9ac. He knows what he’s doing. 😉

59. @Valentine

    PRIVAT [ELIF] E

60. Ha! Sorry Eileen.

61. Not at all, Mitz. I’m always glad to be on your wavelength – but you’re so much more succinct. 😉

62. Bravo dtd @56! – don’t ever give up up on a Picaroon puzzle: you can be sure it will always be fair.

63. Well said Eileen @55 as regards 8d, IC, so glad you did not quote Chambers C = see. I wonder if text-speak will soon be commonplace in crosswords, if so hopefully after my time.

64. Good on you, Eileen (for eschewing text-speak and using full punctuation, of course!)

65. I enjoyed this as usual with Picaroon.

    Nothing much to add except that that I’m with the set/stock = adjective group. As in “He came up with the stock/set answer.”

    Thanks to Eileen and Picaroon

66. [Sorry to nitpick, Mr Penney, but it really should be ‘eine deutsche Mannschaft’.]

67. Some liked it very much today, others thought that it was ‘just a Picaroon’.
    All Picaroons are good, some Picaroons are better though.
    We thought this was Picaroon at his very best.

    Anyone who does some setting him/herself will agree that 28ac (RUSSIAN ROULETTE) was amazing.
    Also above average 1d (with empty, null and void in one clue – all used differently).
    Top-notch.

    Thanks Eileen.

    ps, hedgehoggy, “Perhaps as some have said not as good as Picaroon can be, but I found no real problems here”.
    While I do not agree with the first part, I am happy that you could not find ‘real problems’.
    But why is that seemingly your priority?
    You always put the emphasis on the presence or absence of problems, errors, mistakes.
    You could not find problems, fine.
    But were you looking for it?
    That’s how many others think about your approach of crosswords.
    I have asked on more than one occasion whether you could tell us a bit more about that but alas.

68. Not his toughest but Picaroon at his coruscating best. On completion, I presumed to find slim pickings for any critical journalist, with or without complainteritis. I am proved right! As Eileen notes there were many super clues (but then I also love Dac – just sorry that the ‘twinklers’ often yield quickly but a price worth paying!) and OUT OF DATE had to be my favourite. It was, clearly, not “too hard to spot” and the thought of anyone wishing to criticise such a clue is most disturbing.
    Enormous thanks to Picaroon and Eileen.

69. Sil@67
    As one of hedgehoggy’s alleged sock puppets, his agenda seems quite clear to me – that crosswords would be better if creativity were fairly balanced with precision in the cluing. There are of course differences of opinion as to what “better” means in the context of crosswords and I would accept that he could find a better word than “errors” to describe his points. But past comments show that many of us appreciate his contributions towards reining in those who seem to think that a great crossword is one that takes three hours to complete, requires a developed relationship with the particular setter and still needs one to come to this site to have a good number of the clues explained.
    It is a legitimate wish that every day we should be presented with the apotheosis of the crossword art, but at the same time there are many of us wishing for a crossword in our newspaper that is reasonably approachable in the half hour we have to grapple with it. I conjecture that there are actually many more of the latter than the former in real life (and amongst those who contribute towards the setter’s fee), but on this site the balance is the other way round. Thus, I guess, the greater the need hedgehoggy feels to make his comments. And thus presumably why certain people feel justified in turning so abusive when he does.
    Two worlds. But with Paul sitting untroubled in the middle to show that they are not irreconcilable.

70. I do not know what a ‘sock-puppet’ is, though it sounds like one of Jolly Swagman’s insults hurled unnecessarily and without foundation.

    No, I am a fan of creativity, but I prefer to see it done within the usual parameters. It’s too easy just to disregard the rules (such as they are) and do what you like. It will look flamboyant but people will not be able to solve it. That’s ‘compileritis’.

71. Van Winkle @69 – it’s a pleasure to see such a polite and well-argued version of this case. I’m all in favour of creative criticism as long as we don’t lose sight of entertainment as an essential ingredient of a crossword. For me, the Bullingdon clue was a perfect example of this because even if you miss the reference you can work back from the definition and crossers.

    I’m glad we can all agree on Paul, but I can’t help thinking that he escapes criticism partly because of the volume of his output and hence our familiarity with his stylistic quirks. Clue for clue (and admittedly this is just my subjective opinion) Picaroon is not that much more difficult, but because his appearances are rarer, he gets more criticism.

    Some of us value the Guardian over other dailys because of the stylistic liberties (most of which have been around for years), since they add to the entertainment value.

72. “Elf” is more than just German for 11 – it’s used metaphorically to mean “football team” in the word “Nationalelf”.

    Re 11 across: the phrase “She’s ‘ad an ‘ell of a time” comes to mind (it’s usually ‘she’ in Eastendersworld, I think). An “‘ell” would therefore also be specifically related to a length of time spent suffering, perhaps?

73. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen

    A day behind again and nearly all has been said already above. My last in was PROBATION which I had to go checking for as a meaning of ‘test’. Similarly with ABOMINATION being a synonym of curse. They were both there …

    Especially liked RUSSIAN ROULETTE.

74. I hate to admit that in 17 I lazily took Nadal as NADA L to give F.A. L . . . too many Ls.

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