Guardian Cryptic 28,149 by Qaos

67 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,149 by Qaos”

1. Camel: Mirage, The Snowgoose, Moon Madness, Rain Dances, Nude, A Harbour of Tears

2. A niche theme but I listened to a lot of 70s prog when I was younger. It did help with MADNESS. Enjoyable and not too tricky.

   Thanks to Qaos and manehi

3. Glad that it wasn’t necessary to have knowledge of the theme to solve the puzzle, so it did not spoil it for me. Lots of very nice and inventive clues, and I am enjoying Qaos’ contributions more as time goes on.

4. I wonder how many will be scratching their heads at the reference to Deadly Derek – a boyhood hero of mine.

5. Frankie @4 – not me, but in those days there was plenty of domestic cricket on terrestrial TV, so it didn’t matter that he was a Packer rebel, and I did see a few of his later test appearances…

6. Well that’s a slick neologism, I thought after nutting loi out pessimum; not so neo apparently, early 19C, who knew…not my Collins or SOED. As for theme, too niche for this SLE (straight-laced elderly, well -ish, on both counts). Lovely surfaces, with GOD to Chuck Senior (groan of the day…not original, I pinched it off a Times blog). And I liked the warm snow, tho it felt familiar. Wondered about the plurals in 1d, and took a minute to remember Erse in 20d, tho it’s a regular. Good fun, thanks both, and well done to all theme spotters.

7. Beery @1:  Thanks for that.  Did you pick those words at random from the dictionary?

   Some smooth stuff from Qaos this morning.  I do admire it when there’s a theme which requires no prior knowledge for an enjoyable solve.

   LOI PESSIMUM which had to be dredged from the bilges of the memory.  I imagine this must be an antonym for optimum, no?

   RESONATE is curious because it’s an elegant surface with an appalling anagrind…but let’s not start on that one again.

   Nice puzzle to go with the lovely weather.

   Nice week, all.

8. Lovely puzzle impeccably clued as ever. Fave from a long list was the simple but delightful ELDERBERRY.

   Missed the Canterbury progsters theme so all hail beery. Good to see Deadly Derek back again (also Kentish btw) – uncovered pitches jumpers for goalposts miss Marple werthers original ….

   Many thanks to Q+M

9. William @7 – No, just to spell the theme out, they are all Camel albums (including Camel itself). It was seeing Camel near Mirage that alerted me.

10. Don’t think I’ve ever come across pessimum, but obviously it pairs with optimum. I tried to force pessimal in first.

11. grantinfreo @6:  Me too re the plural mashed potatoes but was slapped down with a vicious backhand slap by the memsahib who pointed out that, “presumably, therefore, I’d be unhappy with waltzes?”.

12. beery @9:  Yes, I looked up your words, and teased out the theme.  My sarcasm was clearly wasted.  Thanks again.

13. BlueCanary @8 – they weren’t really part of the Canterbury scene, that connection started when Richard Sinclair (formerly of Caravan) joined in 1977, but their best known albums were earlier than that.

14. Loved this though I was another who did not know enough Madness songs to spot the theme. Otherwise I was clearly on Qaos’ wavelength, except in the SW corner, where I needed Manehi’s help to parse ETERNALISE, MADNESS and PESSIMUM (all of which now look obvious). I had also forgotten about ERSE for VERSES. Shame about the repeat of ER for Queen (I suppose 50+ hesitations would not have made for such a good surface), but otherwise a lovely puzzle. Thank you to Qaos and Manehi.

15. I would’ve been watching the 79/80 Ashes tour, but don’t remember Underwood, so 25ac was a shrug, liked the surface though..

16. Re the ELDERBERRY gag, we attended a little folk concert while holidaying in Devon once and one of the support acts rejoiced in the name “Jetez Chapeau“.

17. Thanks both. Mostly straightforward, apart from PESSIMUM (new word for me) and didn’t have a hope of spotting the CAMEL theme, as I had never heard of that particular popular beat combo. I did wonder if there was some Madness songs in there.

18. ..if there WERE some Madness songs…

19. …No, 79/80 was a 3-test tour (Gower, Boycott et al) not an Ashes (Aussies won 3-zip, hey ho)…

20. {grantinfreo @19: Derek Underwood was a medium-paced left arm spinner, very effective on the terrible Kent wickets, but much less effective abroad}

21. Love the Chuck Beret, William.

22. Good stuff from Qaos – favourite was MAGNESIUM. Missed the Madness theme; thanks to manehi for parsing ELDERBERRY, which eluded me.

23. Shirl @20 – he was very effective on some tours, notably in India and Pakistan. He was also in the first England team I saw live, at Trent Bridge in 1977, a day I remember mostly for Rick McCosker’s rather slow second innings 100. In those days we were allowed to sit on the grass…

24. [Yep I did a quick peruse Shirl, definitely a sticky wicket specialist, whereas ours tend towards dry and bouncy (esp Perth)]

25. {beery @23 – and walk onto the pitch at lunchtime!}

26. Even with a full gridfill, a following wind and a long, hard stare that would’ve made Paddington wilt I still couldn’t see a theme. Once I saw Beery Hiker’s post @1 I still was no more enlightened. I usually consider myself a minefield of useless information but 70’s Kentish prog rock passed me by. I grew up watching the likes of Derek Underwood – a class of bowler we see little of these days and I suspect the 2020 training means batsmen would take his like to pieces now.

    Good to see Qaos back to his usual sneaky numerical tricks. Is it Roman? Is it another clue? Is it something else entirely?

    An interesting coincidence with a similar trick in the prize puzzle from Saturday – I’ll say no more as I would not want to spoil Brendan’s lovely offering for those still savouring it over a cup of tea and a farl.

    Many thanks Qaos and manehi.

27. Beery@13. Oh dear I have always described Camel as such in the Oxfam shop. I think it must be because when I first saw them live in the late 70s they were with the Softs (and the splendid Michael Chapman) so put 2+2 etc.

    Also should have given kudos to Qaos for the reference to Deadly’s pace in the clue. There used to be a lefty in my local league got me every time – bit of fizz then that awful clunk sound!

28. Took a long time for the penny to drop on VERSUS v VERSES. When it did, it had me wondering which of the two Ss made it into the vs form of the abbreviation.

29. Liked the puzzle  -still have no idea about theme.

    Heard of Frampton’s Camel. Really liked Madness. And Elderberry Wine-and Dark side of..Not many people will have heard of Mirage Dances , a psychedelic album from Moon Rain-or was it Snow Nudes?

    Theme Schmeme Time for medication.

    Thanks Mr Q

30. Thanks Qaos and manehi

    Not much to add about the crossword – no idea on the themes.

    Underwood, though was “England’s umbrella” – they took him along in case it rained! (The pitches weren’t routinely covered in those days.)

31. Qaos reigns supreme with another MAGNIFICENT puzzle. Not only could I not see the theme (which I always scour the grid for with Qaos) but upon reading the comments here, realise I’ve never heard of CAMEL, much less am I able to name any of their songs. But tremendous fun nonetheless. Thanks Qaos and manehi.

32. Thought this a delight from start to finish, with lots to make one smile. Wasn’t quite sure whether 20d required VERSES or VERSUS, and last one in was one I hadn’t come across before, PESSIMUM.

33. I eventually twigged there was a CAMEL theme (with a little help from wiki), but not before I had gone in search of names of other bands to go with MADNESS.  I thought I found ETERNAL, half of TEARS for Fears, 40% of SNOW Patrol, and an upside-down KOOL without his gang!

    Thanks Qaos and manehi

34. I was a big rock music fan back then (well… still am) but I haven’t heard of Camel. Must be one of those Pommy bands that never made it much past their shores. So I missed the theme despite looking regularly as I solved. My L2I were ETERNALISES (ugly word!) and PESSIMUM. I actually had the latter in mind several times, but dismissed it as ‘couldn’t possibly be a word’. I should resort to DuckDuckGo a bit earlier. And even when I had the E word, I couldn’t work out where the vote had come out from – probably because, with preferential voting here, we never use an X. [Sensible nation, we are. Not like the barely democratic UK: first past the post, unelected upper house, optional voting, hold referenda without making crystal clear what each option entails…].

35. Many thanks, Qaos and manehi.

    I really enjoyed the puzzle but totally missed the theme. [Qaos’ hint on his website ‘ Got the hump? Cheer up with my latest Guardian crossword’ was no help at all.] I might have done better with MADNESS songs, which I did know something about: together with The Police and Dire Straits, they toured the Loire and Dordogne valleys with us in the early ’80s, courtesy of my teenage son in the back seat.

    Favourite clues were MADNESS, DANCES and GALLERIES – and I smiled at the thought of the LADA being a posh car. 😉

36. Camel may have only been on the fringes of the Canterbury scene, but Derek Underwood was a major player there!

37. A very nice puzzle.  I really liked 9a NUDES and 24d MERE for their surfaces.  11a ELDERBERRY was great.  I knew there had to be a theme but couldn’t see anything even after finishing.  I am a pop and rock fan and like to think I know a reasonable amount about it, but my tastes often don’t seem to coincide with those of crossword setters (eg the Incredible String Band)!  I do however have very fond memories of a Brendan prize puzzle with a Bob Dylan theme (27,064).

    Unless I’ve missed it, Julie in Australia (another Dylan fan) hasn’t commented recently.  If you happen to be reading, Julie, I hope you’re ok.  Lots of us really appreciate and enjoy your contributions and it would be good to hear from you again.

    Many thanks Qaos and manehi.

38. Jeremy@36  But can you, like me, say that you’ve seen both Camel and Deadly Derek playing live in Canterbury?

39. This isn’t the first time that Qaos has built a theme around a band I’ve never heard of, so it’s fortunate that ignorance of his themes doesn’t hold up the solve. I’m another who liked ELDERBERRY, along with the lift-and-separate wordplay for RESONATE. Thanks to Qaos, and to manehi for the parsing of a couple.

    Lord Jim @37 reminded me that JinA’s regular comments have been absent recently. She is always upbeat and careful to acknowledge other commenters, and I hope to see her back soon.

40. I was almost bowled by the VERSES googly but got just enough bat on it. Lots of music to choose for today’s playlist including the (not so) obvious CAMEL albums but also Jake Thackray’s Lah-di-dah. I hadn’t seen that spelled without the Hs before

41. This was everything Vulcan wasn’t yesterday, a joy from start to finish. Alas Beery @passim outstrips my memory of 70’s prog, but I can remember Deadly Derek well enough to know that ‘seaming movement’ has never been put in the same phrase as ‘Underwood’ before.

    I did like the ELDER BERRY. Elsewhere, PESSIMUM had to be checked to find that it really was a word. How long before the dredging up of MEP shows one’s age?

42. The top half went in very smoothly but PESSIMUM, ETERNALISES and GALLERIES took about as long as the rest of the puzzle to fathom out.

    I agree that ‘Ringtones are annoying’ [nice clue.] I’m not sure I’ve heard of CAMEL, and I certainly wouldn’t have known their ‘discography,’ but I enjoyed the solve anyway.

    Thanks Qaos and manehi.

43. Just noticed that LADA in LA-DI-DA is definitely not a posh car! Also, another day, another classic 70s car – the Austin (BL) Princess

44. Very much ditto Lord Jim and DaveinNC re JinA…secular prayers…

45. [bodycheetah @40. There was a great band called the La-di-das (Kiwi, originally, if I remember right) who I saw playing in Sydney in the early 70s. I was thinking of them as I filled in the answer. Kevin Borich was the lead guitarist – went on to greater things later.]

46. [Good spot Bodycheetah – we still await the doyen of crap Brit cars …. The Morris Marina – made from left over parts of other BL cars including the ancient suspension system from Morris Minors and wipers that had to be assembled the wrong way round as they flew away from the screen! Sold shedloads tho]

47. I always liked Camel when they came/come over the “radio”, but wasn’t familiar enough with their album names to spot without resorting to the keyword search trick.

    I was actually quoted once in the national media making a comment using the word pessimum.  Or maybe it was pessimal?  Never mind!

48. Thanks, manehi.

    I usually find Qaos’s puzzles a bit tougher than this one, but what time I gained in a brisk solve – pausing to realise I can’t spell dissipate – was lost searching for a theme (never heard of Camel, I’m afraid). Enjoyable as always, though.

    If ever Qaos is assigned the crossword for April 1st, maybe he’ll set a puzzle without a theme, and we’ll all drive ourselves mad trying to find one.

49. In this house I acknowledge 1977 as the year that the twin-pronged assault of punk and new wave laid waste to proggy excess. Not that the era was lacking in quality but a lot of it left me cold at the time, and the best stuff to my ears was coming from Germany, not here. tl;dr: I missed the theme :-p

    I also just missed Deadly. The England team of my youth was Willis and Botham, Emburey and Edmunds, Gooch and the end of Boycott. But mostly Gower.

    (Steve Davis was awarded a brand new Lada when he made snooker’s first televised maximum break. He seemed pleased)

    Great work as always from Qaos, though a faster-than-usual solve. Many thanks to manehi for the blog. I hope everyone is well

50. Blue canary @46 and bodycheetah @43 and, of course, not forgetting the Ford Pubic made out of old Corsairs.

51. Sue @ 38, I can’t say that no, but I’m quite a youngster.

52. Couldn’t quite finish this (PESSIMUM caught me out as it seems to have done to many, plus a couple of others) but there was lots to enjoy here. Pleasing anagrams, nice indicators, everything very fair and a great execution of a theme – fun for those who get it, but no obstacle at all to those who don’t. Enjoyed the roman numerals scattered throughout. Lots of clues just tricky enough to allow the less-able solver to get them and feel good about themselves for doing so. Bravo.

53. Bluecanary @46 I lost my first girlfriend to a Morris Ital driver – to this day I’m convinced her head was turned by his dapper wheels

54. [My parents had a Morris Marina for a while. Two of the flappy/paddly door “handles” broke off, so for a while there were only two doors that could be opened from the outside!]

55. Hi bodycheetah @43 and BlueCanary @46

    I’ve been out for a lovely lunch in my daughter’s garden but posted @35 before I went. 😉

56. I remember CAMEL but couldn’t have named their albums before Wikiing the theme.  I do remember liking the SNOW GOOSE at the time (40+ years ago).  I sense a trip to YouTube later.

    This was quite easy to solve.  The grid helped, I think.  Only one eyebrow raise:  not sure why Qaos didn’t spell out Seven in the MAGNIFICENT clue as better misdirection to the later film with Morgan Freeman/Brad Pitt.  That’s what I took the surface to mean when I read it.

    Fun solve, more of an elevenses snack that a banquet but nothing wrong in that.  Thanks, Q and m

57. Prog rock, cricket and crap cars — I’ve been brought up against the majestic sweep of my many ignorances.  But I enjoyed the puzzle anyway — thanks, Qaos (whose theme I remembered to look for for once and where did it get me?) and manehi as ever for a helpful blog.

58. Thanks manehi, I cheated to get 16D from a wordfiller and now you have explained why it works. Got myself tangled up on 20D by entering VERSUS thinking some sort of soundalike request was going on and was looking forward to lots of griping on here so am disappointed that it is only my own stupidity to complain about – but I learned what ERSE is so that’s good. I think I just missed the end of Deadly Derek’s career but know enough about him to find 25A my clue of the day. Thanks QAOS for more good stuff.

    phitonelly@56 – the official title of Fincher’s film (at least on imdb) is Se7en so wouldn’t work unfortunately – when a digit appears like this I usually try to do something involving the clue of that number so it worked to misdirect me for a while anyway! and like you I will try to explore Camel later – have only vaguely heard of the band but thematic ignorance was no barrier to doing the crossword, which is as i like it to be.

     

59. Very enjoyable and not too taxing. I had to leave PESSIMUM because I don’t know the word and couldn’t think of MEP for ‘parliamentarian’. I suspected the kind of theme here but knew nothing about it and could therefore make no connections. I had heard of Madness, though.
    Thanks Qaos and manehi.

60. Never heard of CAMEL but remembered the name Underwood as a cricketer which was sufficient to solve the clue. Every single letter throughout was clued so it didn’t matter if you didn’t know any of the words. Most satisfying. Thanks Qaos and manehi.

61. Enjoyed this without picking up the theme. Couldn’t figure out the parsing for MADNESS — was baffled by Blur, a band I do know. Liked ELDERBERRY, GALLERIES, and HIT-OR-MISS. Thanks Manehi for the blog and parsing RESONATE and ETERNALISES, two I didn’t understand fully. Thanks Qaos for the fun.

62. I wondered about that too, Gazzh @58.  The styling Se7en on imdb may be an afterthought.  This Wiki entry suggests the original release didn’t use the numeral.  It’s a minor point anyway.  I was just a bit curious as to whether Qaos was intentionally referencing the film or not.

63. So it’s Camel. Still no wiser… Great puzzle, though.

64. The beauty of Qaos crosswords is that you can solve them without knowing the theme. NHO of all those bands and songs my fellow bloggers are talking about but completed it nevertheless. COD GOOSE.

65. Quite right phitonelly@62 and the original poster from 1995 that i just found online ( yours for only 99 quid) also calls it “Seven”. (Another poster from that time just has the title as tally marks!) I saw it at the cinema back then but of course can’t remember much about it other than the shocks and grislier aspects along with a fairly consistent dark atmosphere.

66. Can’t let today / yesterday’s theme go without a comment. I would always say I identify most with The Clash and Joy Division but if truth be told my first albums were Genesis and Camel. I have Moon Madness, The Snow Goose and a live album in a cupboard upstairs. The SG theme is playing through my head as I type! Thanks Qaos and Camel.

67. Can I belatedly point out Camel were formed in Guildford. Thanks to Qaos for reminding me of Camel even though I missed the theme. Bill Baileys Top Ten Prog Rock Bands is available on YouTube for those who’d like to learn more about Camel and other great bands

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