Independent 10,504 by Phi

17 comments on “Independent 10,504 by Phi”

1. Enjoyed this. Finished without cheats but struggled with BEHOOF, BOOMERANG & SOLOIST. Always enjoy a struggle, especially if I succeed. I like the word “behoove (or behove)” but have never seen “behoof” before. I feel that I have heard “scarf” for “scoff” before and didn’t think it was US only but I may be misremembering. Let’s face it, I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast this morning. Probably scarfed it down though.

   Thanks to Phi and Bertandjoyce.

2. Another day when we struggled with the NW corner.  We just couldn’t see the blindingly obvious HOUSTON for ages but once we got it one of us vaguely remembered there is such a word as BEHOOF and Chambers confirmed its meaning.  Then we realised we weren’t looking for a personal name in 9ac and the rest fell into place.  LOI, though, was CHUBB.

   The rest, however, was a nice steady solve with, as one might expect from Phi, a couple of musical references with TURANDOT and SOLOIST/Rossini. Can’t see any theme or nina, though.

   Thanks, Phi and B&J

3. Thanks Phi for the puzzle, and B&J for a great blog, as usual. At 14A, I’m still trying to figure out how TIGER fits the definition “competitor”. Is it the predatory animal, or is it a business rival who reacts swiftly and strongly to a competing move, or does it have golfing connotations?

4. Hard enough to be satisfying to finish. I had troubles with BEHOOF and my LOI FRACAS, not knowing the American colloquialism, and others needed a bit of nutting out.

   Favourites were the extended definition for COUNTRY SEATS and the innuendo in the surface for RATCHET.

   Thanks to Phi and B&J

5. Michael from Oz @3

   Re TIGER, I just assumed the Chambers definition #7 – “a formidable opponent or competitor”.

6. Michael @ 3: ‘tiger’ is sometimes used of someone who is especially competitive, e.g Tiger Woods. 4A had to be ‘fracas’ but I couldn’t parse it: surely ‘scarf’ is just the way Americans pronounce ‘scoff’? And let’s not get into ‘ass’ v ‘arse’!  Anyway, much enjoyed so thanks Phi and B&J.

7. Thanks Gaufrid and Tatrasman. Much appreciated. I can sleep easy now.

8. Wow did I struggle with this one. One for the hat marked “learning experience”. There’s an issue in the clueing-parsing that I hope you can assist me with, probably something subtle I’m missing. In 10a TEA is associated with an anagrind, but in 13a AINT well… ain’t (sorry, could resist it). Yet both are jumbled up in their respective answers. Is “involved” an anagrind?

   I may try your patience here, but I have other doubts.

   – Also in 10a, why is “on the contrary” included? What is being reversed? TEA already has its anagrind, and TUN appears in its correct orientation.

   – 8d why does VERY GOOD = PI?

   And for 16d, I think the liqueur is called ANISE, I can’t find reference to its name being ANISEED, which is its flavouring. It could work as an adjective but that’s not how it’s been clued, or again, have I missed something?

    

9. Hi El Gwero

   Thanks for dropping in! In answer to your queries:

   AIN’T ain’t an anagram in M(AINT)AIN! It would be if you ‘involve’ it differently as MA(INTA)IN, but you don’t have to do that. By-the-by, we think ‘involved’ would be an acceptable anagrind if one were needed, as it can mean ‘mixed in with’.

   In 10ac, ‘on the contrary’ is included because if you read the clue directly, TUN should ‘contain’ or go round the anagram of TEA, whereas, to arrive at the solution, the TEA anagram has to go round TUN – ‘on the contrary’ is a device quite often used by setters to suit the surface reading.

   In 8d, PI is defined in Chambers dictionary (one of the ‘standard’ references for a lot of cryptic crosswords) as ‘obtrusively religious, sanctimonious’ – it is a convenient short word often used by cryptic setters that does not crop up in everyday language.

   In 16d, again referring to Chambers, ANISE is the plant whose seeds are used in making cordials and liqueurs etc. ANISEED is the seed of the anise, but it is also an alternative name for ANISETTE, ‘a cordial or liqueur prepared from anise seed’.

   We are really impressed with your determination to get into the world of cryptics – it took us quite a while to do the same many many years ago, before the internet and 225 – the biggest help we had was purchasing Chambers Dictionary and Thesaurus – back in the day, these were two massive volumes with around 3000 pages between them! They took up most of our hand baggage allowance when we took them on holiday with us! (Sad, but true!!). We now have both publications as apps on our phones and iPads at a fraction of the cost of the paper versions – they are interactive too, making it easy to cheat if absolutely necessary! (We never do that of course!) We would thoroughly recommend investing in these apps if you are serious about getting into cryptic crosswords.

10. I’ll see if I can answer your questions, El_Gwero.

    13ac, there is no anagram.  The AINT is inside the word MAIN – M(AINT)AIN.

    In 10ac, it’s not a beer container – TUN -  holding an anagram of tea, it’s the reverse, hence, on the contrary.

    8dn, this is one of those crossword fallbacks that you pick up.  Pi is short for pious, hence good.  I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anyone being called pi in the wild.

    16dn, Chambers says Anise is the plant, the liqueur is called both aniseed and anisette.

11. B&J: Snap!

12. Thanks everyone. Our problem with 8d wasn’t pi but ec, which hasn’t been a group of nations for about 20 years, since it became eu. And we took ages discading Eccles cake to arrive at Eclair, surely not a cake but a pastry.

13. Ericw@12: Chambers defines Eclair as a cake, adding the description “long in shape and short in duration …”

14. Thank you all for your extremely helpful assistance. I Will definitely invest in a dictionary app. One further enquiry – is Chambers the one everyone uses? I seem to recall reading here that Collins was the official reference for the Independent puzzle, but if Chambers is better, then I’ll go for that one. Or would both be best?

15. Hi El-gwero
    I think there’s a pretty fair mix of people who prefer one or the other, or, indeed, the OED, though I may be missing a preference. I’m sure either would help, though I often find just searching a word that I think a clue is suggesting in Google is all that’s needed – though not absolutely all the time. Good luck!

16. El_Gwero

    Togo is correct in saying that people seem to prefer one or the other. We have an old dead-tree version of Collins which sometimes sees the light of day. However, we definitely prefer Chambers. Maybe Gaufrid can advise on whether Collins is preferred for the Indy puzzles. We also tackle the Inquisitor puzzle in the i each week and solvers are warned if the word is not in Chambers. We get caught out by street slang at times but a google search as Togo suggests is a great help.

17. I went for Chambers app as the ratings were higher, and in 5 minutes fiddling around I can already see how it will be a game changer. I feel somewhat foolish for not having done it earlier. Sound advice, as ever, around these parts.

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