Guardian 28,176 – Tramp

113 comments on “Guardian 28,176 – Tramp”

1. Much easier than yesterday’s puzzle… almost like a quiptic.

   LOI was RIDE, desperately hoping that IDE was a type of fish.

   Favourites were ISOLATED and PILLAGE, as well as WARPED and SLAVERING for their clever surfaces .

   Thanks Tramp and Andrew!

2. I did not like 25a. Putting ‘slave’ in an answer when the clue mentioned John Barnes seemed very crass to me in these days of Black Lives Matter. I couldn’t bring myself to consider that answer properly because I thought no-one would do that, hence it was my LOI.

3. Thanks Tramp and Andrew

   I couldn’t parse RESENT, and I’m afraid you haven’t either Andrew – there’s no S in yours!

   I liked PIECE.

   I haven’t heard of John Barnes for ages, but, I’m sure coincidentally, he was on Celebrity Masterchef this week!

4. We parsed RESENT slightly differently….
   N (nurse) in RESET (break)

5. Thanks muffin – I meant EN in REST, of course

6. Andrew, you have a typo in the parsing of 5, RESENT.� It should be:

   EN (enrolled nurse) in REST (break)

   Thanks Tramp, Andrew, and the observant muffin.

7. In RESENT SEN is State Enrolled Nurse. A gentle workout after yesterday.

8. I also enjoyed this, particularly the misdirection in SKIPPING ROPE. Couldn’t parse EAVESDROP – thanks Andrew, and thanks to Tramp as ever.

9. Ignore previous

10. I was taking RENT as the break too, so didn’t see the ES or SE. There used to be an SEN, but RET doesn’t mean break. Different meaning with REST.

11. Very enjoyable.

    Liked: PILLAGE, RESENT, SAUSAGE ROLLS, UTTERS.

    New: PORTO team.

    TassieTim @2 -�Never having heard of John Barnes, that clue did not affect me, even though I could parse it.

    Thanks B+S.

12. Not difficult but I really enjoyed it and had ticks by pretty much everything. Sometimes dancing can be more fun than wrestling. I loved the super subtle instruction to drop the H in EAVESDROP. Doubtless the homophone police will be arriving in due course. Cheers all

13. TassieTim @2 – you make a good point. I had no idea who John Barnes was, so that went over my head.

14. Thanks both. Yep a pleasant potter after yesterday’ wrestle, nothing too wayward from the Tramp (didn’t know Barnes, TassieTim, so no bells rang; now I do know, I’m .. hmmm .. about it).

    The age of the Pill got a groan-chuckle (along with the other ’60s ingredients, what a massive social change!). A few synonyms got eyebrow flickers..shed/spilled, lined/stuffed, mind/memory..but nothing to raise the blood pressure.

    I thought digital tape was an oxymoron, forgot about those little doodads that Sony brought out somewhere back along the tech highway.

15. Pleasantly easier and quicker than yesterday�s steep hill climb, but still some I could not parse. First one in was OPORTO and last was SPONGE.

    EAVESDROP took a long time to click as I could not parse it. Faves were OPORTO, PIECE, SIDELINED, RIDE, NEVER MIND, WARPED. Some good misdirection and missed a few anagrams. Did not know that lined is a synonym for stuffed.

    Thanks to Tramp and Andrew.

16. Thanks, Andrew. I fully agree with your preamble.

    Lots of amusing misdirection, as usual with Tramp. My favourites today were 10ac EAVESDROP, 19ac WHODUNNITS, 17dn SNOWBALLS and 21dn UTTERS.

    Hi grantinfreo @14� blood shed/spilled, pockets lined/stuffed with money, out of sight out of mind/memory…?

    Many thanks, as ever, Tramp, for the fun.

17. TassieTim @2: I may court controversy here but I feel that’s a bit harsh.� We all celebrate here the rich diversity of the English language (and occasionally others too).� Homonyms are part of the language and ‘slaver’ has a longstanding meaning that dates to the 14th century, is derived from Old Norse and means dribble.� It has nothing to do with slavery. And it’s no homophone so the clue can be crafted and the solution found without reference to slave or slavery.� �John Barnes was essential to the clue because of the well-established synonym, frequently used in crosswords, of John for lav and the need to find an ‘s’.� I suppose John Noakes might have done the job though his name would be less well known to many below a certain age.� And, of course, he didn’t dribble!� Well not in the footballing sense which is all part of the misdirection and why a footballer was needed.� There was nothing else in the clue to even hint at slavery and I suspect it couldn’t have been further from Tramp’s mind when the clue was written.� I am fully in support of the BLM movement but I think criticising Tramp for this goes too far.

18. Very well put, Mark.

19. Eyebrow duly calmed, Eileen, ta.

20. John Stones?

21. Lovely puzzle, possibly fastest ever for a Tramp.

    With due respect to Eileen, what Mark said may have been well put, but it’s quite irrelevant to TassieTim’s point.

    Thanks Tramp, Andrew.

22. Bravo, Mark, nicely said.� I’ve had more than my fill of people trying to seek out possible slights where none was intended.

23. Thanks Andrew for explaining the EAVES part of 10A and for properly parsing RESENT ( I was another RESET incl N but think yours is much better). I liked 27A because i love 27A, always my favourite part of any party buffet, but I think 7D and 25A were my favourites. I once bumped into John Barnes in a hotel lift, if I see him again I will ask if he minds being used to help generate a smooth surface for a clue whose solution contains a combination of letters meaning a despicable practice that may well have caused many of his ancestors enormous suffering. Unfortunately I can’t think of any other footballer renowned for dribbling whose first name is John and whose surname ends in S. (At first when trying to parse I did wonder if there was a famous slave with that name who led some sort of rebellion.) Facetiousness aside, I enjoyed this which was fun and mostly harmless until a few stubborn holdouts in the top half shook me out of my smug complacency. Thanks Tramp.

24. When NEVERMIND went in early I thought we might have a Nirvana themed puzzle. That idea didn’t last very long. LOI was APART, as I wasn’t exactly sure of how it was clued. Liked SNOWBALL, and I agree this was a bit less challenging than some of Tramp’s other excellent offerings. SLAVERING also gave me pause for thought for a while…

25. Always a good, fun puzzle from Tramp. I enjoyed EAVESDROP, and SNOWBALL kept me searching for the definition for a while. Enjoyed that WHODUNNITS started with three different anagrinds – almost like a whodunnit in clue form!

    Failed to parse GHANA (I never spot homophone indicators) but it was obvious from the crossers.

26. I understand the unease, but John Barnes is a clever bloke and I doubt he would see a problem with the clue. As one of his fans, I don’t. Mark sums up perfectly. And John Stones dribbling? Come on!

    Thanks s&b.

27. Good programming actually as Tramp can really turn up the heat but it was Vlad’s turn yesterday and today’s was a nice dessert-not too mind-boggling but ow you say immaculate con(tra)ception.

    I loved the use of Barnesy in the clue-it was easy (easier?) to work out anyway but the knowledge of the legend was the icing on the cake.

    Thanks Tamp and Andrew.

28. Is this Tramp extending his range, towards the easier end? If so, that’s fine by me.

    Thanks to Tramp and Andrew.

29. Had to kick myself for not parsing the “eaves” part of 10 and even though I thought of “heaves” I was fixated on trying to make “leaves” work. �I just couldn’t separate “hospital procedure.” �Very clever misdirection by Tramp. � Must say I’m not a fan of the pseudo-homophones such as “Ghana’.

30. Pulls out = leaves?

31. What a relief after yesterday�s torture! I CAN do crossword puzzles! And quickly (well, for me, anyway)!
    Again, all fairly clued and getable, with good humorous touches.
    Totally agree with Mark, as I for one didn�t even see SLAVE as a part of the solution, indeed didn�t notice it at all! The only thing it brought to mind was John Barnes�s exceptional goal against Brazil all those decades ago. And for me anyway, he was always a fantastic footballer, his colour not ever a consideration. Again, strange how some people look for things when nothing is there.
    That aside, thanks for parsing APART for me Andrew as I appear to have forgotten about the AA! I�m RAC by the way!
    Lovely puzzle, thank you Tramp, and great blog Andrew, as usual.

32. Thanks to Tramp. I liked 19a WHODUNNITS, 27a SAUSAGE ROLLS, 16d ACID TRIPS and 17d SNOWBALL, some of which have already been highlighted by others. Blog appreciated, Andrew.

33. Thanks Tramp and Andrew

    Ref the hoohah about 25, it�s worth bearing in mind that Tramp�s puzzles can have been written, and presumably submitted, 2 to 3 years before publication.

34. Judging by DIGITAL AUDIO TAPE, Simon S @33, Tramp might have set this in the last century, never mind a year or two ago!

    All good fair stuff without the torture that Vlad inflicted yesterday. For that relief…

35. TassieTim @2

    I agree with you entirely. I do know who John Barnes is, having been a huge fan of his as a child in the 80s. My jaw dropped when I realised what was being clued with his name in the word play. I do find it offensive (even if merely unthinking) and either way utterly tone deaf. Not just because John Barnes was one of the most brilliant English footballers of his generation who as a black man was the subject of racism throughout his career, but also because John Barnes has himself been an outspoken public debater and commentator on racism in football and in wider society.

    Mark @17

    I totally disagree that the use of John Barnes’ name was essential to this clue. Tramp is an excellent setter, and could easily have thought of myriad ways to have set SLAVERING that didn’t need to involve John Barnes or a surface theme into which only a footballer called “John —s” would fit.

    And I am very surprised to see this clue defended on the basis that SLAVERING is etymologically unrelated to slaves or slavers. Anyone doing a crossword will necessarily be in a state of heightened receptiveness to all manner of possible associations and hidden words. That’s the nature of crosswords. So it’s irrelevant that slavering and slaves are unrelated etymologically, when the hidden message SLAVE is bound to leap out at anyone who gets beyond the surface of this clue about John Barnes.

    I’m not suggesting this was all deliberate on Tramp’s part. But it’s shocking all the same, and I find it incredible it got past the editor.

36. As soon as I saw the homophone (or should I say pseudo-homophone) at 23d I thought, someone will complain about that. It’s becoming not just predictable but somewhat irritating. “Picked up” doesn’t mean “sounds exactly like to all English speakers no matter what their local accent”. It just means “might sound a bit like”. Same with heard, broadcast, on the radio, etc. A perfectly good clue was slightly spoiled for me by the anticipated complaint. (Not really, but it is a little tiresome.)

    I like to think that homophones are like puns: the acceptable response is to groan, with (if you can manage it) the suggestion of a chuckle.

37. Could not parse 23 down. We Scots do not add the letter R to vowels! Enjoyable though, thanks Tramp and Andrew.

38. David @35

    Incredible it got past the editor? Wrong. Why, you ask? Old clot lets everything in (8)

    That’s oxymoron

39. David @35. I think you are totally wrong about this. I agree with Mark @17 and Eileen and others who have echoed him. The word slave is nowhere in the clue and is not suggested. I solved the clue without the word slave coming anywhere near my thoughts. It’s as Andrew put in his blog: [Barne]S + LAV (toilet, john) + E[nglish] + RING (call); �to lead� indicates that the S goes at the start. It was always clear that John was there as a synonym for toilet, and that Barnes was used to provide the S. John Barnes being a renowned winger, and especially good at dribbling the ball, made this a particularly vivid surface, with distraction from the other meaning of dribbling which is the answer.

    As well as you being wrong about this, I think you also owe Tramp an apology for your use of the expression “hidden message SLAVE”, which implies that the setter was indeed trying to equate John Barnes and slave, when clearly this could not possibly have been his intention.

40. A lot of fun here, although (as is often the way with Tramp) I found some of the synonyms a bit of a stretch (I still cannot equate “late” and “recently” – can someone help with an example?). People have called it a bit easy but I found few across clues went in at first pass. As crossers appeared more and more of it fell, including clues I’d not understood at all. So it went fairly quickly but it fell in classic crossword fashion, with each clue being an aid for the next.

    On the “slaver”/”dribbling” debate, I cannot believe what I am reading. Should the names of Arsenal and Scunthorpe United be changed, or not read out before the watershed? The word contains a series of letters which has nothing to do with the word causing offence. Nor was any part of it clued in reference to that word (being S + lav + e all from separate parts) so their was absolutely no reference to slavery in the clue.

41. Lots to like including PILLAGE (groan), WHODUNNITS, SNOWBALL, and EAVESDROP, though I did not parse the ‘eaves’ part.� Thanks to Tramp and to Andrew.

42. @30 pnin

    “He pulls out of the competition.” cf. “He leaves the competition.” �Ergo, pulls out = leaves, no?

43. Happy Independence Day (Observed) to those Americans who are off work today. (And to those who aren’t, tell your employers that just because the actual day falls on a Saturday this year is no reason to be stingy.)

    Anyhow, as an American my LOI was GHANA, of course. Do the British really elide *both* of the R’s in “garner”? I mean, non-rhotic homophones are one thing…

    I also didn’t parse EAVESDROP, for the same reasons others cited above, so thanks for that.

44. I agree entirely with Mark @17; why look for offence when none is intended?�And the usual complaints about a homophone. No one can cover all the regional accents, and as I have said before I think people should use the pronunciation given by dictionaries – GHANA as pronounced by Collins sounds exactly the same as garner, at least to me.

    On to the puzzle, a delightful solve. I particularly liked EAVESDROP, SLAVERING (sorry!), SPONGE and ACID HEADS.

    Thanks Tramp and Andrew.

45. TheZed @40

    How about Hamlet?

    I have of late�but wherefore I know not�lost all my mirth

    I suppose you could object that “of late” isn’t the same as “late”, though…

46. TheZed @40 I’ve done far too many crosswords of late. Also, third entry in, dare I say it, Chambers has RECENT for LATE

47. Muffin and bodycheetah @45/46 that’s exactly the problem I had – “of late” = “recently”, “late” = “recent” (or “dead” or many other things, such is the joy of crosswords!). Problem not yet solved I’d say but thanks for the suggestions.

48. Pentman @42. “Pulls out of” is the surface reading of the clue. It’s what makes the solver (me, for example) think of “hospital procedure” as indivisible. But if you go for LEAVES followed by DR+OP, where is the instruction to leave off the L? This is why Andrew’s parsing is correct: it’s “pulls”=HEAVES, then “out of hospital”=leave off the H. This is “out of” in this sense of out of bananas, or out of cash, ie having none.

49. TheZed @47. Chambers has (as well as recent) former or not long past. The phrase “late rector of this parish” comes to mind, for some reason. Here you could substitute recent or recently, it seems to me.

50. @43 mrpenney.� I think most Brits would end both garner & Ghana with a schwa.

51. This was the most satisfying sort of solve for me, very little in on the first pass but everything eventually yielding. I especially enjoyed PILLAGE and the long anagram. All parsed except GHANA, where I couldn’t imagine what it was supposed to sound like. With Andrew’s explanation, I’m fine with it and agree with sheffield hatter @36 that “picked up” needn’t mean “sounds exactly like.”

    Regarding the debate over SLAVERING, I think both sides have now presented their best arguments, and I hope we can move on from it.

    Thanks to Tramp for a pleasant hour or so and to Andrew for his explanations.

52. TheZed

    Both Chambers and Collins have ‘recently’ as a definition for ‘late’ (adverb). How about ‘I have fond memories of my late/recently departed mother’?

53. @DaveinCarolina
    I agree. I don’t propose to say any more on the appropriatenss of the clue, both sides have presented their best arguments.

    @sheffield hatter. I can assure you I have in no way gone “looking for” offence, I am just speaking honestly to the reaction I had. I will not apologise for that. Nor will I apologise to Tramp for (in your words) “implying” that the setter was “trying” to equate John Barnes with slave. My post made repeatedly explicit that I was doing no such thing. I don’t know how more clearly I could have written that my concern was about the visible effect of the clue and solution, not the setter’s intention.

54. Sorry, Sheffield Hatter I see the point about looking for offence was made by Robi rather than you. That’s a mistake I will happily apologise for 🙂

55. …yes, and while we’re on this “deliberation perceived slight” thing, it must be purgatory for ladies living in Manchester and I think the name that place should immediately be amended to�Personchester.

56. I do feel the objection to 25ac is a kind of linguistic fundamentalism where context and intent are totally ignored.

    Like oofyprosser@26, I’ve always thought of John Barnes as an intelligent and independent-minded thinker who focuses on real racial injustices.

     

57. PS. Nice puzzle.

58. David @53. Yes, you made it clear that your concern was about the visible effect of the clue and solution rather than the setter’s intention, but you used the phrase “hidden message” in your post @35. As the clue and the answer were composed by the setter, where is the message coming from, if not from Tramp (even if not deliberately)? Message implies sender, which is why I used that word in my previous reply to you. I apologise for attributing to you the implication that Tramp was trying to equate John Barnes with a slave. But if the message is purely in the minds of just some of the solvers, why is the editor to be deemed at fault? (Apologies too to DaveinNC @51 for playing on after the referee has blown his whistle.)

59. Thanks for the blog, Andrew and thanks to others for their comments.

    I don’t have a racist bone in my body. I can honestly say I did not spot SLAVE in the word; I know that and that will do me. No one complained when I clued SLAVERED in much the same way in an earlier puzzle. My thoughts: SLAVER = dribble led to football. Then I spotted LAV = John and shoehorned in Barnes. I had a recollection of using it before, and when I searched here, I found I had clued SLAVERED before (27,126). I don’t need to defend myself. I have other things to worry about.

    As late/recently as yesterday …

    Neil

60. Thanks for dropping in, Tramp. I agree with you

61. 10a Like Pentman @29 I had OP as “hospital procedure” and LEAVES as “pulls out of,” which left me with an L too far.� Thanks, Andrew for “heaves” and “out of H.”� That said, i don’t think “eavesdrop” means “bug.”� You can’t eavesdrop a room.� I’m not sure LINED means “stuffed” either.

    William @22 This is a response not to Mark’s point, but to your more general one: there are times when we unintentionally say things that offend, and we need to be — not rebuked, but educated.� Intention is relevant but often not the whole story.

    mrpenney@43� Yes, they do.� “Garner” is pronounced “gah-nah” not only i the UK but in many Southern states and in Boston.

    And thank you, Tramp, for an enjoyable puzzle and Andrew for an enlightening blog.

62. Tramp�s clue from Fen 2017 �John Barnes finally up front � English Liverpool player dribbled (8)� =
    SLAVERED. Nothing but praise in the blog for this clue

63. Feb 2017, sorry

64. Skip@50 “I think most Brits would end both garner & Ghana with a schwa.” Most Scots wouldn’t. However Scots are a small minority of Brits, so your statement is likely correct. Almost any “homophone” that isn’t also a homonym (and probably some that are) will not actually be a homophone to every single English speaker, so I think it’s pointless complaining about it. I take a homophone indication to mean “sounds vaguely like” and it doesn’t worry me if I’d pronounce the relevant words differently.

    I found this pretty straightforward, apart from a very short pause for thought on my last two, UTTERS and SLAVERING; all the clues seemed perfectly fair, though RIDE was a write-in for anyone who knew the familiar fish, and perhaps harder for anyone who didn’t.

    Thanks Tramp and Andrew.

65. Great crossword and a fine blog.� All of you who made Tramp come here to defend himself should be very ashamed.� This is a puzzle, a bit of fun not a political statement, I wish all of you who made these stupid accusations would apologize, go away and not come here again.� I am 73 years old married for over 50 years to a black woman and so have suffered my/our fair share of racism, but have never heard of anything more stupid than suggesting that dribbled = slavered has anything to do with slavery and racism.

66. Thanks for the several examples of late=recently (as opposed to recent) which work for me – I genuinely couldn’t see an equivalent so glad it took until around comment 50 to find one! Mind you “late rector of this parish” implies a dead rector (is that like a dead parrot?) so is unfortunately ambiguous. “Late of this parish” certainly works.

    On the homophone argument, this will never be resolved. I started off fairly strict but the realisation that there is almost no word in the English language which does not vary in pronunciation makes me much happier with the idea that as long as it works for a decent number of English speakers, it’s fine by me. It’s quite fun when a homophone only works for, say, a Brummie or Southern US accent (“In Georgia, everyone’s heard of a jolly boat” -> “y’all” -> “yawl”) and is signed as such. Of course, I have a classic Southern English accent so most of these homophones work for me automatically, which obviously biases me.

67. Never mind about any historical injustices 25A doesn’t work because the clue puts the words in the wrong order.

    You could get SERINGLAV if “to lead” applies only to the S, or LAVSERING if it applies to LAV and S.

68. Norman Stevens @67, the clue is a bit convoluted, but I think it works. First you get ERING, then “on John” to indicate that ERING goes on (after) LAV, then S “to lead,” so S goes before everything else.

69. Norman Stevens @67 Only if you interpret “on” as meaning “following” rather than, say, “touching”. There is no indication in the clue that “ering” has to come after “lav”. If it were a down clue, I’d agree that “on” heavily implies “above” (though we’ve seen before the ingenious suggestion that a spider on the ceiling is below the ceiling!). “On” can mean touching (“put on some make up”) or enclosing (“put on a coat”) or inside (“on the bus”) and doubtless a host of other things.

70. [DaveinNCarolina sorry – I crossed with your post]

71. NS @ 67

    �English call� > E RING
    �on� in an across clue by convention = after
    so �John� > LAV before it
    �Barnes ultimately� = S
    �to lead� = at the front

    You just need to treat �John� and �Barnes� separately. It�s a form of �lift and separate�, only this time applying to two words that could be read separately, not to two separate components that also form a single word.

72. Just returned from a night out. I suppose I expected some reaction to my comment @2. Just to clarify: I made no accusation against the setter. I reported my own reaction to the clue/solution combination, which was a sick feeling in my stomach. The word ‘slave’ leapt out at me, and evoked memories of when I was living in the UK at the time when John Barnes – a player I admired – was having to deal with the most awful racism – bananas thrown on the pitch and the like. I don’t go looking for offence, as some here seem to think, but I felt I had to make a comment about it. If Tramp feels that I was having a go at him, I apologise for that.

73. I see the loons are out today. Can’t quite believe what I’m reading.

     

    SPanza – I don’t often agree with your sentiments but you are spot on.

     

    Shameful.

74. Boris has announced there�s no such thing as a Scotland-England border. Oh dearie me.
    Certainly in language. That 23down Ghana answer infuriated me.
    The stove is an �Aga�, not an �Awrga�.

75. I would urge everyone, before piling in with any further virulent ad hominem attacks on me or anyone else for “lunacy” or for supposedly making “accusations” against Tramp, to properly read and think about what I and others who have expressed similar views did in fact write above.

76. I am thinking LOI means last entry – is it last one in? – just started doing crosswords

     

77. Welcome Fiona Anne

    Yes, Last One In. You sometimes see FOI as well.

    Other acronyms include COD – clue of the day.

    If you see “nina”, though, that isn’t an acronym. It’s explained on the FAQ section of this site.

    (btw this site isn’t usually as acrimonius as it has been today!)

78. TheZed @40, how about late-lamented/recently lamented?

    Liked the puzzle, but found it a bit harder than many have suggested.� I was stuck on “pulls out” = LEAVES in 10, so thanks for the real parsing, Andrew.

    Thanks also, Tramp, for a good workout.

    PS Do we really have to have the rhotic vs non-rhotic debate every time there’s a homophone clue?

79. I haven’t entered the rhotic/non-rhotic debate today – I’m beginning to see little point – but I have a question for the non-rhotics; if you are going to pronounce “garner” as “gahnah”, what’s the reason for the Rs in the spelling?

80. Thanks Tramp, I greatly enjoyed doing this crossword over dinner last evening. I ticked SLAVERING, ISOLATED, WARPED, RADISH, and ACID HEADS (great surface) as favorites. Not sure if I’ve ever seen “serve” as an anagrind (27a) before — I’ll have to add it to my list. Thanks Andrew for the blog.

81. muffin @ 79 – I am afraid that for us Estuary English speakers an R after a vowel is often discarded – e.g. PORTER would be pawtah

82. @ muffin
    I guess for us non-rhotics the only remaining point of the r’s in words like garner is to ensure that the word continues to be spelled in a uniform way that will be recognizable to all other English speakers. Beyond that, the Rs have no point whatsoever for us.

    But that’s also true of the t in mortgage, the w in write etc.

    English is full of now pointless spellings that presumably – someone correct me if I’m wrong – once served a phonetic purpose (either in English or in whatever language English has taken the word from).

83. muffin@77 Thanks

     

84. Shirl and David

    You remind me of a quote

    “What’s all this nonsense about the glo’all stop?”

85. Muffin – acrimonius sounds like a great name for a setter

    All these homophone comments sound the same to me 🙂

86. Muffin, things have moved on. On Masterchef yesterday (a repeat, I suppose) a contestant described himself as ‘a’y with how he had done, so I think it should now strictly be called glo’all sto’ing.

87. As this site’s resident virtue signaller, I haven’t had much to do in recent months. And I don’t think I have much to do today. TassieTim@2 experience of discomfort is legitimate, in that unless you were fortunate to twig the convoluted parsing, the solver is exposed to considering whether “slave” has been clued as “English call on John Barnes”. A moment’s thought, and “surely not” becomes “no”, but that moment is enough to upset us Guardian-reading snowflakes. Nobody has accused Tramp of being a racist; just being remiss in setting the solver up for a discomforting experience. Personally, I don’t think he can be blamed for not spotting the possible complication, but then neither would I claim that you would have to be mentally ill to have fallen into it when solving.

88. James @86

    🙂

    I didn’t notice – I suppose it wasn’t John Barnes, but the OTT cockney (who should have been eliminated, rather than the actress, I thought)

89. Yes, him.� I didn’t stay for the elimination but there were several likely candidates, as well as an extraordinary number of carrots.

90. Oh that gave me quite a few laughs.�� Favourite def 8d mostly because it isn’t just me that does it.

    22/15/9a – I had a DAT deck until last year!!!� Bought it for nearly �400 – sold it on eBay for less than the postage 🙁

91. I didn’t know who John Barnes was- I assumed he was a footballer- so I didn’t see anything to cause offence. It does occur to me that if you look for something to be offended about then you’ll probably find it.
    I did like this puzzle, unlike yesterday’s which I gave up on,and I’d single out PILLAGE as a favourite. I might give the Vlad another go but, then again. perhaps not!
    Thanks Tramp.

92. MaidenBartok @ 90

    I still have a DAT deck, and a small stash of blank tapes. Mind you, it�s been superseded by a HiRes SSR, but I still need it for playback.

93. Re glo”l stops and all that: I remember in my early days at university being asked to pronounce the word “castle” so that everyone in class could hear the awful “karsw” noise that Londoners make when they do so.

94. Van Winkle @87 my thoughts entirely – the clue was perfectly fair, and if solved on its own would not cause pause, but I’m sure I’m not the only one who wrote in the answer from the crossers before fully parsing it, and so was presented with the surface and “slave” before winkling out the meaning. Just one of those unfortunate coincidences. The puzzle as a whole took me far longet than it should, obviously didn’t have my Tramp hat on today – thanks to him and Andrew.

95. @4 brojo:
    Hmmm, I always thought it was RN for nurse – never heard of EN.� I too parsed RESENT as N (nurse) in RESET (break – as in the break key to reset things?).

96. Jay @95

    In the past, SEN (State Enrollled Nurse) and SRN (State Registered Nurse) used to turn up quite often in crosswords, but I don’t think I’ve seen just “RN”.

97. Tassie Tim re 25a My thoughts exactly. Pretty insensitive. I suppose John Keats wouldn’t have made for such a good surface.

98. Jay in Pittsburgh @ 95, RN may be common here in the US, but EN is one of several dozen British abbreviations I’ve had to try to commit to memory. [BTW, greetings from a former Pittsburgher.]

99. Thanks to Andrew and Tramp. A nice quick solve for me, for a change – useful as I started quite late. I think DIGITAL AUDIO TAPE has to be my favourite. I’m sorry to see the rather intense debte that SLAVERING caused, I wonder was I the only one not to notice the issue until I came here ? �� SPanza@65 – absolutely mate.

100. Too late to be read I suppose but I enjoyed the puzzle and the blog. PILLAGE was great.
     I take the pragmatic view that taking the worst possible construction from a given situation is the prerogative of adolescents only, and should not be tolerated under any circumstances from others; it should instead be taken as a sign of limited reach (and in which case there is little point in arguing).
     Of course everyone thinks they are a perfect judge of these questions – nothing new there: as the old song says “you scarce out your window can spit but some learned man is beslavered”.
     I am still in purdah for using recently the word “niggardly” in the company of 17-year-olds. Who among us recently said that there is no lower life than the inaccurate pedant?

101. [Shirl @81. You remind me that I haven’t seen my friends in and around Luton for quite a bit.� “…for us Estuary English speakers an R after a vowel is often discarded � e.g. PORTER would be pawtah”

     Isn’t it paw’ah? Or don’t you do glottal stops?]

102. [Alphalpha @ 100. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Here’s the whole of the first verse (it’s called The March of Intellect):

     Oh! Learning’s a very fine thing,
     ���As also is wisdom and knowledge,
     For a man is as great as a king,
     ���If he has but the airs of a college.
     And now-a-days all must admit,
     ���In Learning we’re wondrously favor’d.
     For you scarce o’er your window can spit,
     ���But some learned man is beslaver’d!

     Marvellous!]

103. Sheffield hatter@: attributed to Goldsmith if memory serves.

104. Thanks Tramp for a really good puzzle, and to Andrew for the blog.

     [The asinine political posturing and hand-wringing from certain quarters is spoiling this blog for me – save it for your Twitter followers, I’m not interested. I hope the site owner agrees.]

105. Alphaalpha @100 – it would be helpful if you could explain how your pragamatic view does not apply in your own case of assuming the worst of people without understanding what their issue was. No-one is taking undue offence. The two persons were reporting the discomfort they felt when inadvertently following a particular path (unintended by the setter) in their attempt to solve the queue.

106. Of course the word “slave” was not used in that contentious clue about which TassieTim is so exercised. If we are going to pronounce the word slavering (from Old German and Dutch to ‘slobber’) correctly, then the stress is on ‘slav’ not ‘slave’.

107. Thanks, Van Winkle @105, and the others who have seen that I did not set out to cause nastiness, but merely to report on my discomfort, which was quite strong at the time, as I had just completed that clue when the blog became available.

     Hurst’s fourth can get England call for his dribbling. (9)

108. I adore this endeavour everyday and usually succeed but the virtue signalling today from the outset was staggering. Absolutely shameful disrespect to a fabulous setter. Not sure I�ll be coming back her again soon…

109. I think the current savage economic effects of the CV19 pandemic and those to come from the �government�s� policies of CV19 herd immunity and Australia (= no deal) Brexit are far more important than something a mere crossword setter (pace Tramp) may have unwittingly triggered.

110. @SimonS Commenting in a crossword blog about one’s reaction to one thing seen in a crossword, does not mean one thinks that one thing (or one’s reaction to it) is more important than totally different thing that exists outside of the crossword.

111. @ Simon S
     On reflection I suspect your comment is not necessarily a criticism of those of us who reported on our reaction to 25A. Could it perhaps be directed more at the outrage with which our posts have greeted by others?

112. David @ 110/111

     That�s more or less it.

     Some people see things in a puzzle that upset them, others see the same and don�t react in the same way. Some may pass comment, some may not. I try only to post on this site when I think I have something germane to say, though I read the G I FT blogs every day.

     Me, I built 25�s solution up from the clue (as soon as I saw �John� I thought there would be a lavatorial reference and immediately dissociated it from �Barnes�, though I have heard of the footballer), so didn�t even spot the potential slave connection.

     To some degree that was also my point about Tramp�s puzzles sometimes being 2-3 years old: that it appeared in the current circumstances is, in my view, a decision of the editor not the setter.

     But all in all it�s a puzzle, a diversion, not a matter of life and death, which I think our current �government�s� policies are.

113. John B at 99, thanks for popping in. Great to hear from the man himself.

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