Guardian 28,196 / Vulcan

Vulcan fills his / her regular fortnightly slot with a typical Monday medley of anagrams, charades and double and cryptic definitions.

Thanks for the puzzle, Vulcan.

Definitions are underlined in the clues.

Across

1 After a main course, something to follow? (6)
RECIPE
Cryptic definition? I suspect that we are intended to take ‘main’ as referring to the sea – the usual ploy – but, for me, anyway, ‘main course’ much more readily suggests part of a meal than a sea voyage

4 Child has one on hand for such gentle treatment (3,5)
KID GLOVE
KID (child) + GLOVE (one on hand)

9 O for breathable air! (6)
OXYGEN
O is the chemical symbol for oxygen

10 Located by Scottish island, returns and tells a story (8)
NARRATES
A reversal (returns) 0f SET (located) + ARRAN (Scottish island)

11 Not having had a drop in weight, facing chilly grave (5,4,5)
STONE COLD SOBER
STONE (weight) + COLD (chilly) + SOBER (grave)

13 Another failure on board for ship’s officer (6,4)
SECOND MATE
SECOND (another) + MATE (failure on a chess board)

14 A short trip is dull (4)
ARID
A RID[e] (trip – short)

16 Wanting to give opponent a hiding (4)
ANTI
ANTI (opponent) is hidden in wANTIng

18 Turning, cats maybe run: one could climb this? (10)
STEPLADDER
A reversal (turning) of PETS (cats maybe) + LADDER (run)

21 Showing regret for an act of self-harm (7,7)
KICKING ONESELF
Double definition

23 Unworthy, if daring, broadcast (5,3)
INFRA DIG
An anagram (broadcast) of IF DARING

24 I have to follow law in force (6)
ACTIVE
I’VE (I have) following ACT (law)

25 Powder that’s rarely valuable (4,4)
GOLD DUST
Cryptic definition

26 Start on satire, finish making lampoon (4,2)
SEND UP
S[atire] + END UP (finish)

Down

1 Bird heading off from stream (4)
ROOK
[b]ROOK (stream)

2 This crossword is strangely obscure (7)
CRYPTIC
Double / cryptic definition, I suppose?

3 Sort of pause, being knocked up (8)
PREGNANT
Double definition

5 Totally flustered where one lives perhaps, nips out (2,1,4,4)
IN A FLAT SPIN
IN A FLAT (where one lives perhaps) + an anagram (out) of NIPS

6 Gaudy rig has to be replaced (6)
GARISH
An anagram (to be replaced) of RIG HAS

7 When is area of Languedoc to be revisited? (7)
OCTOBER
Hidden in languedOC TO BE REvisited

8 Simple addition to contract for film (4,5)
EASY RIDER
EASY (simple + RIDER (addition to contract)

12 Stop crime? Go afresh to tackle seriously (4,2,5)
COME TO GRIPS
An anagram (afresh) of STOP CRIME GO

13 Fastening horse into strap (9)
SHACKLING
HACK (horse) in SLING (strap)

15 Service winner overcomes resistance in overwhelming victory (8)
MASSACRE
MASS (service) + ACE (winner) round R (resistance) – an ace is also a service winner

17 Discreet, caught in bad fault (7)
TACTFUL
CT (caught – this is not in Collins or Chambers but I found it online in lists of cricket terms) in an anagram (bad) of FAULT

19 Having wasted time, daughter married (7)
DALLIED
D (daughter) + ALLIED (married)

20 Regularly rail, plain coarse (6)
RIBALD
R[a]I[l] + BALD (plain)

22 Lament what willows do? (4)
WEEP
Double definition

88 comments on “Guardian 28,196 / Vulcan”

  1. Avatar for Julie in Australia
    Comment #1
    Julie in Australia
    July 27, 2020 at 9:09 am at

    Thanks very much to Vulcan and Eileen.

    Not trying to sound cocky but a couple of these I thought were too obvious. Nevertheless, I did enjoy 11a STONE COLD SOBER, 5d IN A FLAT SPIN and 8d EASY RIDER. I couldn’t parse ANTI at 16d as I couldn’t see the definition – one of the first things I learned about 2d CRYPTICs back in the day was that the definition should come at the beginning or end of a clue, though I think we now accept that some of those old “hard and fast” rules can be broken. I also thought of the sea for “main” in 1a, Eileen, but then ditched that and eventually read it as a question, “(If you are) after a main course, a RECIPE is something to follow”.

  2. Avatar for TheZed
    Comment #2
    TheZed
    July 27, 2020 at 9:10 am at

    One man’s meat as they say – these vague and weak definitions (hardly cryptic) are not to my taste but I know others find them quite fun. Any chance of a bit more explanation of 1ac? So far I have a recipe is something to follow, but no idea what it has to do with the sea.

    I put in “mate” but did not parse it as “failure on board” – “mate” is a success on the board as it is what the winner does. The loser is “mated” surely? I vaguely had “E” for failure (as in exams, though anything seems to be a pass these days) on “mat” for “board” (very -ish) but was not convinced.

    Thanks Eileen and Hephaestus.

  3. Avatar for Pedro
    Comment #3
    Pedro
    July 27, 2020 at 9:11 am at

    Thanks Eileen. I had doubts about CT – surely CT = COURT not CAUGHT. However if you found t I guess we have to accept it.

     

  4. Avatar for Pedro
    Comment #4
    Pedro
    July 27, 2020 at 9:14 am at

    JinA: Thanks for recipe explanation – I think you are right.

  5. Avatar for Eileen
    Comment #5
    Eileen
    July 27, 2020 at 9:14 am at

    Thanks, JinA – you’ve reminded me that that is how I originally read ‘after a main course? – I’ll delete my query!

  6. Avatar for Jay
    Comment #6
    Jay
    July 27, 2020 at 9:16 am at

    I read 1a as a question. i.e. If you are after a main course, then a recipe is something you might follow.

  7. Avatar for brojo
    Comment #7
    brojo
    July 27, 2020 at 9:17 am at

    A few unparsed today, so thanks very much Eileen for your explanations, and thanks JiA@1 for your parsing of recipe.

    Favourites were STEPLADDER and STONE COLD SOBER.

  8. Avatar for Eileen
    Comment #8
    Eileen
    July 27, 2020 at 9:20 am at

    TheZEd @2 – it doesn’t have anything to do with the sea here (but ‘main’ in clues usually does!)

  9. Avatar for grantinfreo
    Comment #9
    grantinfreo
    July 27, 2020 at 9:21 am at

    Yes, with the ?, ie “are you after”, that works, JinA, brava! It had me scratching.

  10. Avatar for bodycheetah
    Comment #10
    bodycheetah
    July 27, 2020 at 9:39 am at

    Apart from 1a, 9a, a, 13a, 14a, 16a, 25a, 2d, 3d, 22d there were some okay clues here. I gave OCTOBER a tick for straddling 4 words and EASY RIDER made me chuckle but it was slim pickings overall. Is Vulcan really the best the Guardian can find for the Monday slot?

  11. Avatar for howard
    Comment #11
    howard
    July 27, 2020 at 9:39 am at

    I too scratched my head over recipe. Having read Eileen’s interpretation and the comments, it occurred to me that “seconds” come after a main course, but I’m not sure it helps.

    JulieInA @1 – was it ever a convention that the definition always comes at the start or the end, or just a useful guideline for beginners because it is almost always true? In this case it’s worth it for a nice smooth surface in my opinion.

     

  12. Avatar for michelle
    Comment #12
    michelle
    July 27, 2020 at 9:53 am at

    Very enjoyable puzzle.

    Liked SECOND MATE, KID GLOVE, EASY RIDER

    New: INFRA DIG

    I thought of ‘After a main course, something to follow?’ as a sort of slang way of saying, “If you are you after (looking for) a main course to cook, this is what you follow” (ie a recipe)

  13. Avatar for Mark
    Comment #13
    Mark
    July 27, 2020 at 9:54 am at

    Credit where credit is due: there were a number of stronger clues interspersed with what Eileen rightly describes as a typical Monday medley.  Which does rather sound like damning with faint praise, I accept.  Hard to tell if this is Vulcan upping his/her game, though, as there are also the typical easy/weak clues such as CRYPTIC, ARID and WEEP.  I thought ANTI was a class above others: like JulieinAustralia @1, I was looking for a definition at the beginning or end of the clue, but I guess the oft quoted definition of  cryptic clue doesn’t actually specify where the definition should fall and I liked Vulcan’s technique for hiding it in the middle.  If RECIPE is, indeed, parsed as JinA and others have suggested, then it’s quite clever and I smiled at KICKING ONESELF, EASY RIDER and OCTOBER which was nicely hidden.

    With regard to the quibbles already raised: Ct for caught is a stretch but, yes, it does seem to appear in some online lists though ‘c’ is certainly more prevalent (I particularly think of the reasonably rare ‘c&b’ as in ‘caught and bowled’ – though it always seemed to me it should be ‘b&c’) and mate is both victory and defeat (TheZed @2: You’re certainly right about the loser being mated but I think it does work as a noun).  I’m no scientist but I suspect there may be some arguments about whether O and air are synonyms; the latter contains quite a lot of other elements.

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen as always.

  14. Avatar for muffin
    Comment #14
    muffin
    July 27, 2020 at 9:58 am at

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

    OK for a Monday – much easier than Matilda’s Quiptic! “dry” would be better than” dull” in 14a. “Service” is doing double duty in 15d, as you imply, Eileen – an “ace” can only be a service winner.

  15. Avatar for Simon S
    Comment #15
    Simon S
    July 27, 2020 at 9:58 am at

    [Mark @ 13

    I think it’s ‘c&b’ rather than ‘b&c’ because the layout of the scorecard runs Batter – How out – Bowler, so it preserves the sequence and avoids writing C Smith – B Smith.]

  16. Avatar for TheZed
    Comment #16
    TheZed
    July 27, 2020 at 9:59 am at

    Thanks all for the recipe explanations – I was overthinking it and thrown by the mention of the sea, which was a route I’d gone down too.

    Re definition at start or end (JinA @1 and others) my understanding is that the normal form of a clue is something like “definition given by woedplay” or “wordplay leads to definition” where “given by” and “leads to” can be linking words such as “in”, “from”, “by”, “found in” etc (though some work one way, some the other and some both). Sometimes the linking word is omitted and some punctuation must be assumed.

    To have the definition anywhere else would require a rather unusual construction, though it has been done (there was a good one in the G’s cluing competition recently though I forget the details). So it’s not so much a rule as a side-effect of the basics of cryptic grammar.

  17. Avatar for DavidT
    Comment #17
    DavidT
    July 27, 2020 at 10:05 am at

    Still not happy about RECIPE, but I hadn’t got any further than ‘course’ maybe being ‘E’, which doesn’t help. Nor does thinking of it as the French for grocer backwards without the I. By the time you start down those paths, it’s time to give up. At least the crossers made it obvious.

  18. Avatar for Mark
    Comment #18
    Mark
    July 27, 2020 at 10:07 am at

    As always, taking my time to pen my missive, I ended up overlapping with several others who’ve made similar points.  bodycheetah @10: I think you’re probably damning with faint praise too with your “Apart from…”  and a list that runs half way across the screen 😀

    michelle @12” INFRA DIG is an abbreviation of Latin ‘infra dignitatem’ meaning beneath (one’s) dignity.  I think it’s decidedly dated – not sure I’ve seen or heard it used (apart from in crosswords) for a long time.  I associate it with the earlier half of the twentieth century so decidedly before my/our time.

  19. Avatar for AC87
    Comment #19
    AC87
    July 27, 2020 at 10:12 am at

    Vulcan must have some serious dirt on Hugh because I can’t see any other reason that fortnightly we’d be subjected to these puzzles. Some of the clues are so basic as to be not cryptic (1ac, 9ac, 25ac, 2dn 23dn), others seem to be written by someone who doesn’t think cryptic clues need any grammar or definition at all (16ac, 7dn). There’s no joy in going “oh that must be it because it half works and fits with the other letters.

    Sorry for the rant but to compound my dislike of the puzzles it irritates me that my least favourite setter is also the most regularly appearing one by far.

    Anyway I know some people like them and interesting to read the blog and comments as always so thank you Vulcan and Eileen.

  20. Avatar for Hmmm in Oz
    Comment #20
    Hmmm in Oz
    July 27, 2020 at 10:15 am at

    A gentle start to the week. I thought 1ac was OK as is; the sea did not cross my mind… I liked OCTOBER, ANTI and EASY RIDER.

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

  21. Avatar for Eileen
    Comment #21
    Eileen
    July 27, 2020 at 10:19 am at

    I have just finished Matilda’s excellent Quiptic and would heartily recommend it. 😉

  22. Avatar for baerchen
    Comment #22
    baerchen
    July 27, 2020 at 10:21 am at

    folks….there’s some dramatic overthinking going on re 1a

  23. Avatar for Julia
    Comment #23
    Julia
    July 27, 2020 at 10:25 am at

    I thought there was more to this than people give it credit for. At 18a, I spent some time trying to do something with STAIRCASE having of course reversed CATS and used ‘one’ ‘run’. At 19d, I initially tried to parse DAWDLED because of the D and WED. At 2d I looked for an anagram of OBSCURE but then saw the word ‘cryptic’ printed less than a centimeter above its position in the grid! I also explored the sea route at 1a. I’ve had my busiest week since 23rd March so now have a backlog of crosswords to catch up on and this was a good start. Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

  24. Avatar for Munromad
    Comment #24
    Munromad
    July 27, 2020 at 10:25 am at

    Like others I was somewhat puzzled by RECIPE, so thanks to JinA for making sense of it. Also like others some of the clues are very weak and barely cryptic including that word WEEP and OXYGEN. INFRA DIG is an expression my parents used to use I remember from my childhood more years ago than I care to remember! I didn’t realise a hack was a noun for a horse though I know riders go out for a hack on their horse. MyCollins dictionary has put me right.
    Thanks to Eileen and Vulcan

  25. Avatar for Lord Jim
    Comment #25
    Lord Jim
    July 27, 2020 at 10:28 am at

    I thought 1a RECIPE was rather good, parsed as JinA says @1, with the clever misdirection of “after” and “to follow”.

    16a ANTI was interesting, and I’m still trying to make my mind up as to whether it fully works.  I think it would work better with the “a” omitted, although the surface then wouldn’t read so well.  (I agree, TheZed @16, that there is no rule that the definition has to be at the beginning or the end – that’s just where it normally ends up naturally if a clue works properly.)

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

  26. Avatar for Penfold
    Comment #26
    Penfold
    July 27, 2020 at 10:34 am at

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen

    Musically, we have Ballad of Easy Rider from the Byrds, a very dark Rook by XTC, Rod Stewart was Stone Cold Sober on his Atlantic Crossing and I’ve heard Rumours of Fleetwood Mac’s Gold Dust Woman.

  27. Avatar for grantinfreo
    Comment #27
    grantinfreo
    July 27, 2020 at 10:35 am at

    Mondays are ok, mixture of Vulcan, Pan, Anto etc. It’s a tough craft and a learning process (see, eg, recent comments about Anto’s development). No grumbles here. Same for solvers I suppose although I’m a cogitative plodder, don’t hurry and haven’t got much sharper. Weekends, I do a couple from the Times (syndicated in a local Rupert Rag, well after their London publication). When I can, occasionally, manage one in under an hour, the solving times for the veterans on their blog will be in minutes! Humbling!

  28. Avatar for CanberraGirl
    Comment #28
    CanberraGirl
    July 27, 2020 at 10:37 am at

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen. I agree this puzzle has some unsatisfying answers (WEEP, CRYPTIC) but some I really enjoyed. EASY RIDER, kICKING ONESELF and ANTI.
    My LOI was SHACKLING and I’m still a bit unhappy for sling to be strap.
    Overall I was grateful for a gentle start to the week after grappling with Paul’s Prize on Saturday! Before finishing today I only had 5 answers in for Saturday but Vulcan’s puzzle got my creative ideas going again and I’ve managed a few more for Saturday’s puzzle.

  29. Avatar for NeilH
    Comment #29
    NeilH
    July 27, 2020 at 10:43 am at

    I, too, can’t make sense of RECIPE but the advice of DavidT @17 is wise. Life is too short.

    In answer to Mark @13, the breathable bit of air is OXYGEN.

    Now, of course, when oxygen was first discovered in the 18th century, scientists still believed the “phlogiston theory” of combustion was correct; that combustible substances contained an inflammable principle called phlogiston, which was liberated when combustion took place. When Joseph Priestley discovered oxygen, he named it “dephlogisticated air”, reasoning that things burned more brightly in an atmosphere of oxygen because it would be better able to take up phlogiston.

    The Frenchman Lavoisier, however, showed that combustion involved the burning substance taking up oxygen rather than losing phlogiston, and because if the combustion products were dissolved in water the solution was acid he came up with the name oxy-gen (acid producer). But before he hit on that name which we now gratefully use, he suggested the name eminently breathable air. I did wonder whether there was a gentle allusion to this in Vulcan’s clue.

    Incidentally, anyone who might have supposed Michael Gove to be historically illiterate should consider the fate of Lavoisier, the greatest scientist of his day. He was guillotined in the French Revolution, with the dismissive comment “La Republique n’a pas besoin de savants” [essentially, The Republic doesn’t need experts]

     

  30. Avatar for Trailman
    Comment #30
    Trailman
    July 27, 2020 at 10:56 am at

    All I care about on Vulcan Mondays is that I don’t have some ghastly cryptic definition hanging over to the afternoon. Today, not even a ghastly definition of CRYPTIC could hold me up. Thank goodness for that.

  31. Avatar for Mark
    Comment #31
    Mark
    July 27, 2020 at 11:00 am at

    NeilH @29: thanks for that and, if that was Vulcan’s intent, I appreciate the reference.  I’m not entirely convinced.  I thought breathing was the inspiring of air – all of it.  It’s just the bits other than Oxygen don’t do us much benefit.  After all, one can breathe smoke, carbon monoxide etc but they’re not breathable in the sense intended.

  32. Avatar for MaidenBartok
    Comment #32
    MaidenBartok
    July 27, 2020 at 11:03 am at

    Nice start to the week for us newbies so thank you Vulcan and Eileen.  As with others, STONE COLD SOBER was my fav because I’m not sure I’ve been this since the 23rd March…

  33. Avatar for rodshaw
    Comment #33
    rodshaw
    July 27, 2020 at 11:32 am at

    When several clues are obvious while the puzzle is still coming out of the printer, you suspect an easy solve, but when a whole segment falls (NE) before the ink is dry you suspect it is a waste of a sheet of paper. The only consolation was that I set a new personal record for solving time. I found the quiptic a significantly more decent challenge.

  34. Avatar for Eileen
    Comment #34
    Eileen
    July 27, 2020 at 11:38 am at

    rodshaw @33 – as I said on the Quiptic thread, the puzzles would have been better the other way round – as is quite often the case.

  35. Avatar for 2Scotcheggs
    Comment #35
    2Scotcheggs
    July 27, 2020 at 11:47 am at

    At the risk of sounding cocky, I can’t be the only one for whom almost every clue was an immediate write-in. 13A brought to mind a comparison between solving the puzzle and thrashing a beginner at chess; there’s little pleasure to be derived from such a lack of challenge. However, solvers have varied tastes, and the editor must try to cater for them all, just as TV programme planners give us Love Island and TOWIE as well as University Challenge and Inside No 9. So I shouldn’t moan, but I still do.

  36. Avatar for DaveinNCarolina
    Comment #36
    DaveinNCarolina
    July 27, 2020 at 11:52 am at

    I get along better with Vulcan when he doesn’t saturate the grid with cryptic/double definitions. There are still several here, but only CRYPTIC and WEEP stood out to me as weak, and those were at least easily gettable. I don’t think of a MASSACRE as an overwhelming victory, but Collins justifies the usage. Otherwise all steady and straightforward except for RECIPE, where my thoughts were the same as Eileen’s, but I still couldn’t make it work (initially not convinced by the explanation of JinA @1, but perhaps that was the intent). I did like OXYGEN and SECOND MATE.Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

  37. Avatar for Robi
    Comment #37
    July 27, 2020 at 12:03 pm at

    Pleasant enough for a Monday – if it’s too easy, there are also the FT and Indy crosswords to do.

    I thought 1A was a bit strange, but accept JinA @1’s thinking. INFRA DIG is still in common usage, I think. None of the dictionaries seem to give it as dated. Thanks NeilH @29 for the extra information about ‘breathable air’.

    Thanks Vulcan and Eileen.

  38. Avatar for greensward
    Comment #38
    greensward
    July 27, 2020 at 12:47 pm at

    Eileen

    I’ve been going through the Guardian crossword archives for some time now, starting from when the fifteensquared blogs first began, and am currently in May, 2008. On March 17th 2008, a certain name first appeared in the comments, and was a regular thereafter. The nature of the comments suggested that this person, by the name of Eileen, was a blogger-in-waiting!

    Clue: ‘Bows and scrapes to obtain indications of approval’ (12). Remember that?

  39. Avatar for Red Groaner
    Comment #39
    Red Groaner
    July 27, 2020 at 12:58 pm at

    The question mark in the clue to 1 across should be where the comma is.

  40. Avatar for Lyssian
    Comment #40
    Lyssian
    July 27, 2020 at 1:00 pm at

    Neil H – the difference between Lavoisier and Gove is that Lavoisier was bemoaning his fate, whereas Gove was simply being mendacious.

  41. Avatar for ngaiolaurenson
    Comment #41
    ngaiolaurenson
    July 27, 2020 at 1:09 pm at

    Alomg with others I enjoyed today’s Quiptic much more than this.  I did like STONE COLD SOBER and OXYGEN. I parsed RECIPE asmJinA@1 did and thought the device for ANTI was clever.

    Mark@13, as per NeilH@29’explanation, that is why I liked oxygen, ie that O is the part of air that we need and is (part of) why we breathe. However, I would just like to point out that inspiration is only part of breathing; exhaling is also important as the exhaling of carbon dioxide is also vital.

    Thanks to Vulcan and to Eileen for the blog.

  42. Avatar for PeterO
    Comment #42
    PeterO
    July 27, 2020 at 1:16 pm at

    muffin @14

    I have heard tennis commentators making a clear distinction between an ace, when the receiver fails to get a racket on the ball, and a service winner, in which contact is made, but the ball is not returned in court. By this measure, there is no double duty in 15D; ACE is just a ‘winner’.

  43. Avatar for muffin
    Comment #43
    muffin
    July 27, 2020 at 1:20 pm at

    PeterO @42

    Although your distinction between “ace” and “winner” is true, it is irrelevant to the point I was making. The only shot in tennis that can be an “ace” is a service.

  44. Avatar for Valentine
    Comment #44
    Valentine
    July 27, 2020 at 1:23 pm at

    Pleasant puzzle.  (I’m still hung up on parts of the Quiptic.)

    greensward @38 — I tried to find the fifteensquared for the puzzle you mention.  I found the puzzle — it’s Rufus, 24,338.   But when I googled “fifteensquared 24338” I got the reply that there was no such entry.

    I also remember, during some old rootling of my own in 2008, that one day that year was your first blog, Eileen, with welcoming comments from other bloggers.  What date was that?

    For what it’s worth (very very little), “courses” is a term for the big sails on each mast — the mainsail, the foresail and the mizzen.  Having said that, I can’t work it into the recipe clue at all.

    Thank you, Eileen and Vulcan.

  45. Avatar for keyser soze
    Comment #45
    keyser soze
    July 27, 2020 at 1:39 pm at

    I enjoyed this overall. I think some of the criticism has been a bit harsh.

    Muffin @ 43: Ace can also be a winner in cards (eg splitting a deck to decide who wins – assuming it’s agreed ace is high).

    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

  46. Avatar for Gaufrid
    Comment #46
    Gaufrid
    July 27, 2020 at 1:42 pm at

    Valentine

    You were unable to find the puzzle on this site because the online version was incorrectly numbered and that error was carried forward into the blog. I have now corrected this and the post can be found here.

  47. Avatar for HarpoSpeaks
    Comment #47
    HarpoSpeaks
    July 27, 2020 at 1:45 pm at

    I usually have a first go at the crossword over breakfast, and then aim to finish it off (which I sometimes manage to do) in the evening. So my delight at finishing today’s puzzle over breakfast was somewhat diminished by the realisation that I wouldn’t have it to distract me later. Hey ho.
    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

  48. Avatar for KeithM
    Comment #48
    KeithM
    July 27, 2020 at 1:51 pm at

    Many of the clues need tightening up, or could have been put more elegantly. Editor clearly happy let things slide with Vulcan. Shame.

  49. Avatar for Eileen
    Comment #49
    Eileen
    July 27, 2020 at 1:54 pm at

    Hi greensward @38  Yes, I do remember – and how long I took to pluck up the courage to post a comment! You and Valentine prompted me to do some rootling of my own in the archive. My first blog was on September 24th 2008 – an Orlando puzzle. How times – and blogs – have changed!

  50. Avatar for copmus
    Comment #50
    copmus
    July 27, 2020 at 1:56 pm at

    Simon @15 -do you remember a cricketer name of Atherton b McGrath

    and a Sheila who bowled under the name of Lillian Thompson?

  51. Avatar for Dr. WhatsOn
    Comment #51
    Dr. WhatsOn
    July 27, 2020 at 2:02 pm at

    When I did this last night, I wondered about ANTI, and looked forward to seeing the wisdom of the crowd in the morning – would it be considered inventive or against the rules?  As might be expected, a mixed bag.

    To expand a bit on JinA@1, most clues are definition+wordplay (in either order), DDs are a subtype of this, and there are also CDs and &lits.  That seems to be all and today’s 16a is none of these.  I frankly don’t know if there are such things as rules for cryptics, or just evolving practice, but I will say this.  We get about 10,000 clues a year in the Guardian Cryptic, and most of the setters are very experienced, and – I don’t say this enough – quite brilliant and innovative and as far as I can remember, don’t ever try things like this.  There must be a reason.

  52. Avatar for Petert
    Comment #52
    Petert
    July 27, 2020 at 2:02 pm at

    I wonder why there is a policy of having two easy crosswords on a Monday? It seems to leave the more experienced solvers frustrated and people like me sometimes at sea later in the week. However I prefer to congratulate myself on a record fast solve than bemoan the nature of the clues, although, like others, I found the Quiptic a more satisfying exercise..

    Thanks to Eileen and Vulcan

  53. Avatar for Tyngewick
    Comment #53
    Tyngewick
    July 27, 2020 at 2:03 pm at

    Thanks both,
    Short but some sweet bits. While this is Monday fare, I thought there were some enjoyable clues e.g. 11, 5, 8, 15 and some interesting misdirection. No sympathy with the grumblers over this one.

  54. Avatar for Trailman
    Comment #54
    Trailman
    July 27, 2020 at 2:17 pm at

    Petert @52, the Quiptic does not appear in the printed paper, while the Cryptic does. My guess is that the ‘easy Monday’ tradition in the printed paper is so well-established now that it’s immutable. The only possibility would be to move the Quiptic to later in the week, and that would be fraught with danger too.

  55. Avatar for sheffield hatter
    Comment #55
    sheffield hatter
    July 27, 2020 at 2:23 pm at

    Most of this was ridiculously easy, but it took me ages to get MASSACRE because I’d put MOTIVE at 24a. Yes, I know MoT is a test rather than a law, but it’s as close as some of the other loosenesses in this crossword. MATE=failure? ARID=dull? Thanks to Julie in Australia’s explanation @1, 1a is now seen as quite clever, though without the crossers could anyone have written in RECIPE with any confidence?

    Highlight of the day so far: Penfold’s mention @26 of Rook by XTC. Highly recommended.

  56. Avatar for Horexio Helgar
    Comment #56
    Horexio Helgar
    July 27, 2020 at 3:25 pm at

    Not sure about 25a. Are we to read “rarely valuable” as meaning “valuable because of its rare nature”? This seems a bit awkward…

    I also didn’t like 14a. Surely “arid” doesn’t mean “dull”. Though I guess arid land, due to the lack of water, might be considered dull to look at.

  57. Avatar for Robi
    Comment #57
    July 27, 2020 at 3:46 pm at

    HH@56 et al: Here is an extract from Collins about the second meaning of arid:

    ADJECTIVE [usually ADJECTIVE noun]If you describe something such as a period of your life or an academic subject as arid, you mean that it has so little interest, excitement, or purpose that it makes you feel bored or unhappy.
    She had given him the only joy his arid life had ever known.
    …the politically arid years of military dictatorship in the 1960s and ’70s.
    Synonyms: boring, dull, tedious, dreary  

  58. Avatar for Ronald
    Comment #58
    Ronald
    July 27, 2020 at 3:52 pm at

    Thought loi ANTI quite a cute little clue…

  59. Avatar for Tony Santucci
    Comment #59
    Tony Santucci
    July 27, 2020 at 4:00 pm at

    Vulcan bashing seems to be the Monday sport in these parts so I wasn’t expecting much from this crossword. I was pleasantly surprised and I enjoyed solving this over breakfast. By the way, the Saturday FT crossword by Julius should not be missed. Thanks to both.

  60. Avatar for caprimulgus
    Comment #60
    July 27, 2020 at 4:32 pm at

    Thanks Vulcan (and Eileen).

    To those who can only find unpleasant things to say about someone’s attempts to amuse and entertain, I would suggest you take a long, hard look in the mirror.

  61. Avatar for bodycheetah
    Comment #61
    bodycheetah
    July 27, 2020 at 4:40 pm at

    To those who feel they have the right to police the opinions of other members of this site, I would suggest you take a long, hard look in the mirror. Or better still, at the site guidelines

  62. Avatar for Bingybing
    Comment #62
    Bingybing
    July 27, 2020 at 4:42 pm at

    ‘Unpleasant things’. Can you be more specific? Are people not allowed to comment anything other than glowing praise?

    Some people find these puzzles too easy for a cryptic slot. They should be allowed to say so.

  63. Avatar for Peter Aspinwall
    Comment #63
    Peter Aspinwall
    July 27, 2020 at 4:46 pm at

    Agree with KeithM @48. There really shouldn’t be so much discussion on what is supposed to be a fairly straightforward puzzle. The fact that there is tells me that today’s offering is not all it should be.
    Thanks Vulcan

  64. Avatar for AllyGally
    Comment #64
    AllyGally
    July 27, 2020 at 5:15 pm at

    HH@56:I interpreted the definition of GOLD DUST as “rarely valuable” to mean it’s both valuable and rare, eg. “Parking places in the centre of town are like gold dust”.

    As a relative newcomer I enjoy an easy romp on a Monday. Today’s favourites were STONE COLD SOBER and SECOND MATE.

    Thanks to Vulcan and Eileen.

  65. Avatar for Wellbeck
    Comment #65
    Wellbeck
    July 27, 2020 at 6:37 pm at

    Oh dear. I’m one of those who rather liked this crossword. Then again, one of the reasons I generally enjoy Vulcan’s puzzles is that quite a few of his/her clues remind me of Rufus. I recall there was a section of the FS community that didn’t like him, either. I wonder how much the numbers overlap….
    Personally, RECIPE made me grin – precisely because the reference to “main” had me starting out looking for some connection to the high seas. Likewise, with a T & a B in 7d – my first thought was ANTIBES, before spotting the well-hidden (to me!!) correct answer. And again, how refreshing to have a different sense of “ct”. Thanks to Vulcan for the fun, to Eileen for the blog, to Neil H for the fascinating info on Lavoisier and phlogiston (I SO love the extra things I learn via this site!) though I have to confess, I’m with Lyssian on Gove himself.

  66. Avatar for Simon S
    Comment #66
    Simon S
    July 27, 2020 at 7:03 pm at

    Wellbeck @ 65

    Vulcan is a he.

  67. Avatar for PeterO
    Comment #67
    PeterO
    July 27, 2020 at 7:29 pm at

    muffin @43

    “The only shot in tennis that can be called an ace is a service”. Certainly, but so what? I suspect that you are trying to conflate the surface, where ‘service’ and ‘winner’ hang together (with not an ace in sight), and the wordplay, where they do not pair up.

  68. Avatar for sheffield hatter
    Comment #68
    sheffield hatter
    July 27, 2020 at 7:32 pm at

    AllyGally @64: I agree, something that is valuable because of its rarity could be “rarely valuable”. I thought this was a good attempt at a misleading definition.

    Wellbeck @65: Again, I agree about the attempt at misleading with “main” leading to the high seas (with the added diversion of a “main course” being a large sail). But there was a missing “penny drop moment”, I thought. In a clue like this we have to be sure that the answer is the same one that the compiler has thought of, and I don’t get that sense here. But that’s maybe a problem with any cryptic definition?

  69. Avatar for sheffield hatter
    Comment #69
    sheffield hatter
    July 27, 2020 at 7:39 pm at

    PeterO @67. Yes, this is another of Vulcan’s subtly clever clues, where “service winner” seems to come from tennis, but in fact “service” is religion and “ace” is cards. (Self @55. This doesn’t mean I’ve changed my mind about some of the looseness in today’s puzzle. There’s cleverness, sure, but perhaps some of it leads to looseness.)

  70. Avatar for muffin
    Comment #70
    muffin
    July 27, 2020 at 8:03 pm at

    I’m not clear that “ace” means “winner” except in tennis. An ace doesn’t have to win in cards.

    I should say that I quite liked the ambiguity. I don’t think “double duty” is necessarily a no-no.

  71. Avatar for Octopus
    Comment #71
    Octopus
    July 27, 2020 at 8:13 pm at

    Easy, except for RECIPE which accounted for half my solving time. I wonder if the setter deliberately inserted a difficult clue in this crossword?

  72. Avatar for Dansar
    Comment #72
    Dansar
    July 27, 2020 at 8:16 pm at

    Thanks to Eileen and Vulcan

    4a Chambers has kid-glove, and Collins has kidglove. It just means “gentle”.

  73. Avatar for Simon S
    Comment #73
    Simon S
    July 27, 2020 at 8:18 pm at

    muffin @ 70

    Well, Agent Orange has recently been talking about acing his cognitive function tests, and he’s certainly a winner…

  74. Avatar for muffin
    Comment #74
    muffin
    July 27, 2020 at 8:20 pm at

    Yes, Simon, but again that’s a tennis reference!

  75. Avatar for bodycheetah
    Comment #75
    bodycheetah
    July 27, 2020 at 9:45 pm at

    Maybe not a tennis reference? North American English usage of “ace” can be “achieve high marks in (a test or exam)”

    Which isn’t to say I wouldn’t like to see him end up in, rather than on, court 🙂

     

  76. Avatar for Morpheus
    Comment #76
    Morpheus
    July 27, 2020 at 10:09 pm at

    Didn’t get along with Anti.  Been doing the Guardian cryptic for nigh on 15 years and can’t think of another occasion when the beginning/ending rule has been broken (which isn’t to say it hasn’t been but it must be extremely rare).  Why not simply clue it as “Wanting to hide an opponent?”  OK it would have been straightforward but the only thing that didn’t make this clue straightforward was not following the standard rule and thereby throwing the solver.  Maybe I was just tired and not sufficiently imaginative but this was the only clue I didn’t get and I BLAME THE SETTER! 😉

  77. Avatar for phitonelly
    Comment #77
    phitonelly
    July 27, 2020 at 11:08 pm at

    Morpheus @76, I agree that the surface disguise made ANTI hard to spot, but I’m not sure it’s unfair.  I regard the beginning/end rule for the definition as unwritten at best, so I quite liked the clue in the end.  The setter could have kept the same surface meaning and not infringed the “rule” with something like “Wanting to give a hiding to opponent” but I suppose he just chose not to.

    On the other hand, I didn’t feel so well disposed to RECIPE as a CD, and the DD PREGNANT was pretty repugnant.  The definition for KID GLOVE is more an allusion to it than a synonym and I didn’t like CT for “caught” in TACTFUL very much.  Other than that, seemed par for the course for a Monday.

    Thanks, Vulcan and Eileen.

  78. Avatar for TassieTim
    Comment #78
    TassieTim
    July 28, 2020 at 12:11 am at

    I found most of this fine. I did have ANTI in mind for the longest time before I put it in as the last answer (after SHACKLING), when it seemed it couldn’t be anything else.

  79. Avatar for Kingsley
    Comment #79
    Kingsley
    July 28, 2020 at 9:55 am at

    I think ANTI is an absolute gem of a clue. It’s so difficult to construct fair clues where the difficulty lies in finding the definition in the middle of the clue, but here we have a simple definition and “hidden in” wordplay all under a perfectly smooth surface. Wonderful.

  80. Avatar for Zim
    Comment #80
    Zim
    July 29, 2020 at 11:43 pm at

    I know I’m late to the discussion here, but could somebody please explain what the actual definition of 7d is supposed to be? I’m assuming it’s supposed to be an &lit / ‘clue as definition’, but if that’s the case the answer could just as easily be any of an almost infinite number of possible expressions of time. Seems like an absurdly vague, lazy clue, even if it was easily solveable.

  81. Avatar for Puntanelle
    Comment #81
    Puntanelle
    July 30, 2020 at 2:24 am at

    The definition part is simply ‘When’.

    I was using the crossword to help teach a beginner, and 16ac messed that up!!

  82. Avatar for Julius Mach
    Comment #82
    Julius Mach
    July 30, 2020 at 12:29 pm at

    Thank you Vulcan for a puzzle I could make some progress with.  Between Monday and Thursday I managed over three quarters of it with the south west corner being the one with gaps.  I had 25ac, 12d, 17d, second half of 21ac so just 3 across words and two down words missing.  Thank you Eileen for providing the answers and explanations for the missing answers.  Mostly dohs but I would never have got 16ac.  I would get the Telegraph where the puzzles are generally easier but my wife insists on getting the Guardian.  For those who find these these puzzles too easy may I suggest The Times.  As for news content and actually reading the paper, I only do that if I have finished all the puzzles.

  83. Avatar for Zim
    Comment #83
    Zim
    July 30, 2020 at 7:11 pm at

    Puntanelle @81:

    Re 7d, whether you take “When” as the definition or take the entire clue, it’s still a weak, vague clue.

  84. Avatar for Khitty Hawk
    Comment #84
    Khitty Hawk
    July 31, 2020 at 8:43 pm at

    As someone who’s still a cryptic noob, I like having two eas(ier) puzzles. I mean, I didn’t complete this one until right now. ¯\_(?)_/¯

    Never heard of INFRA DIG. Technically, my LOI was MASSACRE, but since I actually had to guess-and-check to get ACTIVE but was able to get MASSACRE after I had the final crosser, I consider ACTIVE my “true” LOI. (Also, I parsed ‘service winner’ as a double pun: ‘service=mass’ + ‘ace=winner’ yes, but also ‘ace’ as in ‘Flying ace’ – a.k.a., someone in the military service who wins a lot of air combat battles.)

    I was also iffy about the construction of the clue for ANTI, but the result was pleasant enough that I just dinged them a mental point and moved on.

    AllyGally@64 and sheffield hatter@68 That’s how I interpreted ‘rarely valuable’ as well. Horexio Helgar@56 I’d say ‘arid’ as a synonym for ‘dull’ would be a largely poetic choice of words rather than something the everyday person would use if they weren’t trying to flowery language.

    Not seeing how ‘run’=’ladder’, though?

  85. Avatar for nmsindy
    Comment #85
    nmsindy
    August 1, 2020 at 9:16 pm at

    query at #84     run = ladder is from nylons/tights  – maybe less common today

  86. Avatar for Colin F
    Comment #86
    Colin F
    August 2, 2020 at 4:48 pm at

    ‘Infra dig’ completely new to me. Knew what it had to be an anagram of and still couldn’t fill it in.

    I welcome my fortnightly Vulcan puzzle. It makes me feel accomplished when I complete it. (Occasionally.) Not a feat I would accomplish on any other day of the week …

  87. Avatar for CappyHats
    Comment #87
    CappyHats
    August 3, 2020 at 2:31 am at

    Completely agree with Julius Mach, Khitty Hawk and Colin F. Some of us are very grateful for puzzles on the easier side of things. I really like Vulcan’s puzzles (though this one wasn’t my favourite). Due respect to experienced solvers and all that, but please don’t begrudge us puzzles that provide more of a way in.

  88. Avatar for Sugarbutties
    Comment #88
    Sugarbutties
    August 4, 2020 at 6:08 pm at

    16ac – it’s the “a” that annoyed me

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