Guardian 28,206 – Paul

57 comments on “Guardian 28,206 – Paul”

1. My first SKATES took a long time and my last was DOCUSOAP, which I had never heard of, although I’ve heard of the diplodocus… I had a lot of:

   maybe-it’s-this?

   moments; thank goodness for the check button. But pleased to have completed it without any reveals. A difficult, curate’s-egg sort of puzzle.

   Thanks Paul and Andrew.

2. Thanks Paul and Andrew.

   A fairly slow but steady solve, and a curate’s egg for me too.

   I have to say it: missed the explanation for 26ac. Why couldn’t the editor insist that setters replace the likes of “reportedly” with “some, say”, or similar.

    

3. Slowed myself down by assuming that ‘spring heeled’ was the solution to 22/3 but eventually sorted that out.

4. Pottered along quite happily but gee it took hours. Docudramas yes, seen a few, but docusoap? And not too hot on dinos so the docus was a shrug. Ages remembering launch is up, d’oh, so the NE took a while. He brew.. GroanOfDay. Looking back, none of them seem too diabolical, but it was a workout nonetheless. Thanks Paul and Andrew.

5. …yes, sea-sword also up there in the GoD stakes…

6. Lots of ticks and smiles – I especially favoured 9a THEBES, 11a DEPILATORY, 17a GONE MAD (I laughed a lot when I saw that – my LOI), 25a ATHENE (my favourite Greek goddess), 26a SEE-SAWED, 5d YESTERYEAR (great surface!), 6d HEBREW, 13d POOL PLAYER, 16d TEA TOWEL and 18d AGNUS DEI. No groans form me, gif@5 and 6, but I can see why with hindsight. Perhaps I should have named the ones I didn’t tick, but I actually liked the whole puzzle and clearly for me there were many highlights.

   Thanks to Paul and Andrew.

7. [Sorry gif@4 and 5]

   [P.S. I was half hoping that 4d was going to be GILLETTE to go with the shaving the hairy back clue when it fitted the crossers, but then I realised that would be product placement which can be a bit of a no-no!]

8. Well, i for one enjoyed it, and had no problem with the homophones or Paul’s wordplay.   You know with Paul that the answers are not going to be too obscure, though he’s going to lead you up a lot of false trails.    The NW corner took a long time and I couldn’t believe how long it took to get HEBREW.    For 24, 8 I first googled the Cluedo characters and was mystified until the crossers pointed to the weapon not the user.   A good end to the week from Paul.

9. 23 is one of the best hidden clues I’ve seen. Thought 20 was a bit mean, but I got them all, so I’m not complaining.

   My thanks to setter and blogger.

10. Cleudo with the kids being so long ago, was vaguely thinking lead pipes, Rome, Caligula… der!

11. ..Cluedo..

12. > so it’s a homophone of SEA SWORD

    Not if you come from Belfast, it isn’t.

13. Good fun and a return to some excellent surfaces from Paul. A couple of “in the past” indicators would’ve been handy for Mr Brown and the lead piping (it’s been “lead pipe” for a very long time, pretty much since the pieces changed from being made of lead to something else!). I saw the trick and was looking for lead pipe+ something for a little while until I realised. I didn’t get the homophone – “see” came immediately but I got hung up on “see’s” (neptune’s) and was wondering why “awed” was “slayer”, other than some vague rock band reference!

    Thanks Paul and Andrew. “Hebrew” indeed – up there with the clue about the “Hebrides” which was something to do with transvestite weddings if I recall correctly.

14. Men always make the tea because He-brews…

15. A tricky but very enjoyable puzzle today, whenever we see Paul’s name we know we’re in for a long but satisfying game.

    All parsed except for KNOTTY, as we didn’t know the bird. Because of this, and the sneaky hidden word, SW was the last to go in.

    Favourites were SKIPJACK, SEE-SAWED and GONE MAD.

    Thanks to Paul for the challenge and thanks to Andrew for the blog.

16. Lots of entertaining and inventive surfaces to enjoy but weak allusions to many parts of clues such as DOCUS, KATE, PM (lapsed), DALI etc., required guessing then parsing but that is my m.o. most of the time anyway.

    13 was my favourite because of the misdirection of “breaking’ and 11 as I thought, initially, the “initially” was redundant but it is needed to make the clue parse correctly.

    I thought Neptune had a trident and not a sword (unless I’m missing something), so I didn’t think 26 worked, not to mention the tenuous homophone.  20 was a bit devious and I didn’t parse it fully as far as the definition went.

    Thanks Paul and Andrew.

17. Thanks Paul and Andrew
    Good to see wine-maddened Pentheus, the King of Thebes, blood on the quad bikes, stunt kites, sundries and much much more.

18. Struggled ultimately with SKIPJACK and POOL PLAYER, but the usual fun, and where would we be without the odd Gonad making its appearance in a Paul puzzle?

19. Anne@12: indeed not. Paul is a serial offender in this regard. Any time I see what he appears to be cluing as a homophone my heart sinks. He’s far from the only setter to be deaf to rhoticism, but some of his efforts seem especially jarring, perhaps because I like him so much otherwise.

20. Very enjoyable, zero complaints, many smiles.

21. Paul hasn’t always been my favourite compiler, but he’s definitely grown on me (which I’m sure is a great relief to him). Some clues wobble along the tightrope between what’s fair and what’s not, (HEBREW is pushing it) but I don’t mind this because of their amusing cleverness.

    Hidden answers usually leap out at me like iron filings to a magnet, so I liked the well-concealed COSA NOSTRA.  The words “odd” and “even” (or derivatives thereof) always prompt me to look for alternate letters, so MONOLITH was hauled into place quickly. I got all four crossers for DOCUSOAP but still stared at it for two minutes as if hypnotised, trying to think of a word that fitted. When I succeeded, it took me another minute to parse it. I identify with the clue to DEPILATORY, since my own back is like Chewbacca’s. Years from now, 5d’s clue might be used to describe 2020. LOI was THEBES; Tina Turner would have got it sooner. Thanks, Paul.

22. Anne @12- I once asked a Dingle resident if it was true that every Kerryman answered a question with another question and he said “Who told you that?”

23. Slow and steady with a few nice smiles along the way. Didn’t know Cosa Nostra and only got it with all the crossers and looking at the similarity between those and the letters in the clue – a very satisfying hidden in plain sight clue. No issue with docusoap for me and my brain went straight to Cluedo (surely the greatest classic board game) but cycled through all the murder suspects before realising we must be talking murder weapons.

    I couldn’t make the leap sawed to sword but the answer was clear enough from the definition and in hindsight I think the homophone is fine (I got hung up on it being Neptune’s = seas so was looking to make a slayer homophone from awed)

    My only query, is PM for Brown kosher? I know he’s relatively recent but some indication that we’re looking for a former one rather than a sitting one (UK or otherwise) might have felt fairer – I’d already thought about nut for headbutt and still needed the N R and W before the penny dropped.

    Thanks Paul and Andrew

24. Could someone explain the inclusion of ‘initially’ in the clue for 11a ‘depilatory’ ? Presumably ‘plait’ is an anagrind as well as an anagram but what was the indicator to add the ‘y’ from hairy?

25. From ‘Hairy back’ ie last letter of hairy, OnionWoman @24. And the ‘or plaited’ is twisted, not plaited.

    Found this tricky but then I often struggle with Paul. LOI was GONE MAD simply because it took forever to realise it wasn’t a foot or dancing ball that Paul was referring to. Honestly. Will I never learn?

26. OnionWoman @24 – “initially” means that the anagram of ORPLAITED comes before the back of HAIRY (y)

27. As often happens with Paul, I made slow but satisfying progress until the last few and then got tripped up. This time it was PIPPED (didn’t know the ‘just beaten’ meaning and bunged in NIPPED – sigh). Along the way I enjoyed NUT-BROWN, GONE MAD, HEBREW and POOL PLAYER. Couldn’t parse DOCUSOAP, SKIPJACK or SEE-SAWED, so thanks to Andrew for clearing those up and thanks to Paul for the usual laughs.

    OnionWoman @24, ‘hairy back’ instructs you to take the y from hairy. The anagrind is ‘twisted’ and the fodder is ‘plaited or.’ Then ‘initially’ tells you to put the anagram before the y, as Pentman @16 pointed out.

28. Sorry, Trailman & Shirl, we crossed.

29. I think I might have put in a request for a STILETTO the last time we had an Essex reference, so thank you Paul.  (DOCUSOAP and DEPILATORY also had me wondering if he was in a TOWIE frame of mind!)

    A propos the “crimson rose” in the clue for SOARED, I thought I would mention Sandy Balfour’s Pretty Girl in Crimson Rose.  It’s well worth a read, full of Araucaria references, and particularly helpful for anyone just getting into cryptic crosswords.

    Thanks Paul and Andrew.

30. Well, I guess rules are there to be broken. I was once told by an experienced setter that wordplay could not be used to derive a definition, but here it is in SKIPJACK. However, that didn’t stop us getting the answer.

    Some gems here; I thought COSA NOSTRA was one of the best hiddens I’ve seen for a while.

    Thanks Paul and Andrew.

31. As always with Paul little comes easily but if you stick at it things usually become clear. This took a while. Loi was GONE MAD which once seen elicited a chuckle. I had to use google to get SKIPJACK as it is new word on me and I didn’t see the clever revere of a nut until the answer was in. The clever concealment of 23 had me fixed for ages. Unlike others I spotted THEBES and HEBREW straight away.
    Thanks Paul and Andrew

32. Reverse…….

33. I loved SKIPJACK – I spotted “a nut” backwards was TUNA and assumed it was part of the wordplay leading to a genuine LOL when I realised what game Paul was playing

    In honour of all the rhotic speakers on the forum today’s musical pick is The Proclaimers “Throw the ‘R’ Away” from the classic 1987 album “This is the Story”

     

34. I was well pleased to finish this one today. I needed an hours break, do a bit of laundry and dishwasher loading (my forte), then another coffee and a seat in the cool of the living room. Then, as usual, the half dozen that were left just fell into place.
    So many great clues, but chuckled heartily at GONE MAD, and the hidden reverse of COSA NOSTRA was exceptional. Hadn’t heard of a KNOT before, so thanks for that Andrew. Not to mention Paul for the mental workout today. Here’s hoping tomorrow’s prize isn’t a write in like last week’s.

35. I didn’t bother parsing SKIPJACK because I had three crossers already and the K gave me KNOTTY, so thanks Anrew and others for pointing out the amusing but surely illegal definitionary wordplay.

    DOCUSOAP was a very deeply buried part-memory for me, so I thought the clue, which requires the solver to think of the same bloody dinosaur as the setter is thinking of, for crying out loud, is grossly unfair, though I got there once OAP was confirmed by the crosser from 3d.

    COSA NOSTRA as others have commented, is probably the best hidden reverse since, erm, the last one. And speaking of reversals, there were apparently two in 17a, which had me both flipping and going the wrong way at the same time, which may have resulted in ME around a twisted GONAD, rather than the other way round. Managed to raise a smile despite the pain.

    Top residual image of the day, post solve: POO LAYER. Thanks, Paul.

36. I’ve always liked Paul’s puzzles, and this time was no different.

    I have been trying to take a more, shall we say, relaxed attitude to certain looseness in clues, since most synonyms and most homophones are at least somewhat approximate or not for everyone, so I’m happy to go with the flow unless they’re really egregious.  Grammar, though, I think has to be spot-on, which leads me to getting QUAD from SQUAD.

    The general m.o. of cryptics is to take some letters, do something with them, rinse and repeat.  So to get to QUAD you want to manifest SQUAD, then remove the first letter.  I don’t see how the clue as written does that.  It’s got all the right words, but not in the right order.  “Crew lost first” would work, if a bit clunky.  Likewise “crew with first lost”.  Can someone enlighten me?  Thanks.

37. Dr, W@37, I agree that the construction of the clue for SQUAD was a bit iffy. Your suggestion of ‘crew lost first’ would provide a better instruction, and I believe it would actually be less clunky.

38. Thanks both,

    Two cracking crosswords in a row from Paul. I spent far too long trying to do the wrong thing on 20ac – looking for a waste container being a J***sack before ‘knotty’ ruled that out. A quibble with 3d. If something is spring-loaded, the spring is already under compression, so when it is released it isn’t really bouncing. Well, that’s my excuse for sticking  for far too long with ‘spring-heeled’.

39. Dr. WhatsOn @36. I’m not sure I’m with you here. Is word order so important? Are you saying that the clue would be ok if Paul didn’t have to “manifest” SQUAD before beheading it? So “Courtyard, where first of squad lost (4)” would be acceptable? (If obvious.) Maybe I do think you’re right, but the example of this clue is perhaps not a good one for your argument, as the answer is also pretty obvious as written in Paul’s version of the clue.

    Here’s a clue from the FT, written by Julius, who comments here as baerchen and often criticises the cryptic grammar of the Guardian’s setters. “Putting down sodium, finish off household pest (7)”. Look away now if you want to solve it yourself, but the cryptic grammar works like this: find a synonym for “finish off”; now “put down” NA, the symbol for sodium, where presumably put down means leave it on the table while you take the remaining letters and put them in the grid. Now, when I did the crossword (it’s this one, btw) I got the solution from the crossers and taking NA out of terminate, but I couldn’t make the clue mean that, because Julius hadn’t manifested terminate before saying what to take out. He was taking something out of a word which hadn’t yet appeared. But Julius being such a stickler for correct grammar must surely think that what he did was legit.

    So I’m probably going to get on the wrong side of both you and baerchen/Julius now, because I think the point you make is a good one, but not particularly so in the case of the clue for QUAD. Whereas your criticism of Paul’s clue today has helped me to crystallise what was wrong (in my opinion) with the clue for TERMITE in the FT.

40. Dr Whatson@36 & Sheffield hatter @39. An interesting discussion.   I had a similar debate with Picaroon himself, some days ago , about word order where others also mentioned clues being Yoda-ish,  if my meaning you get.  Often these clues could be made more grammatically correct but the desire for a neat surface prevails.  I think ”Courtyard, where first of crew lost (4)” is clunky and could simply have been made more grammatical without spoiling the surface, by changing it to “Courtyard, where first of crew is lost.” (4)   or “Courtyard, where crew leader gets lost.” (4)

41. Mulling this over, I see how tricky setting and satisfying everyone must be.  I’m not even satisfied with my own suggestions. So my final suggestion to obviate Dr Whatson’s concerns is that it could have been the form: “Crew leader is lost in courtyard.” (4) 

    Too much time on my hands.

42. Wow – that has to be the week’s toughie.  Technically a DNF and interrupted by a trip to the dentist so add that and the heat (36.5!) to the mix and I’d put myself down for an 11/10 :-)   FOI was MONOLITH quickly followed by DOCUSOAP.   AGNUS DEI yielded quite quickly for this raging atheist but SKIPJACK was a new one and ATHENE took flippn’ ages.

    As always, thank you Paul and Andrew.

43. Pentman@40 – was it you who called it reverse Polish? (for those who don’t know, it is the way some calculators work(ed), where you enter all the numbers first, then the operator).  I used to think that some of the cryptic operators were immune to this and only worked in the English-like way, but now I’m thinking the order can be anything for any of them, as long as you have adjacency.  I think if you adopt this assumption, it will help with solving.  This QUAD thing, though, is not that.

44. Am I the only one who got the last three crossers in 20a,thought that ‘waste container’ could be the definition, CRANK could be a lifting mechanism and wondered whether ATP or TPA could somehow be a nut that I could reverse and insert?

    If it had been any other setter I’d have ruled it out straight away, but with Paul…

45. [Dr. WhatsOn @ 43 – I was once working with a client in a very oddly configured editing suite. I said “it may take me a while to get going, this suite uses reverse Polish logic”. The woman said “I am Polish. I take great offence at that”. The session went downhill from there.]

46. Huh, when I revealed 14 and got NUT-BROWN, I thought, in what parallel universe is that a synonym for DARK? It’s almost like giving the clue-word as SMALL with the answer THREE. SHADE instead of DARK would be OK. Anyway, I gave up after that reveal.

    Thanks Andrew for your brilliant unravellings.

     

47. Excellent puzzle, though I am a little confused about how you get to DEPILATORY from “good to shave”. Isn’t the point of such a thing that you then don’t need to shave? I know it can also be an adjective but cannot see how that works either. Thanks for any enlightenment!

48. Me @48: Or is it that a depilatory is a good which will “shave” you? Feels like a bit of a stretch, and the lack of any explanation in the blog makes me feel like I am missing something obvious here.

49. Also great to see a reference to the late, great Tommy Cooper – “Just Like That …”

    I can still remember his sad demise on live TV – like many I thought it was part of the act. Sadly not

50. toneyvr @46. The beer universe! A nut-brown ale is dark, like this one, or this one.

51. I found this quite tough but, like Andrew said, it unfolded steadily.  I liked POOL PLAYER, TEA-TOWEL and LEAD PIPING.  Not so keen on the wordplay x 2 style of SKIPJACK.  This seems like too much of a slippery slope to me.

    F Jack@47,48, I don’t think you’re missing anything.  It’s just not a good definition, because, like you say, shaving is cutting hair off while a depilatory burns it off – different things.  FWIW, I think your reading of the definition as a good used for shaving, i.e. a noun, is probably right.

    Is it not possible to accept that most homophone clues will not work for everyone, since we all speak differently?  Isn’t it reasonable to think that part of the solving process might entail thinking in a different accent?

    Thanks, Paul and Andrew.

52. FOI megalith followed by armalite, tisk tisk. Worth it for the sighting of the knot. Thanks Paul and Andrew.

53. Worked at intervals on this until I finally revealed DOCUSOAP and KNOTTY, both outside my GK, and SKIPJACK because I didn’t know “skip” was a waste container and I totally missed the reversal that yielded “tuna.” Nonetheless, I’m very gratified because I can always count on Paul to entertain with GONE MAD, MONOLITH, QUAD, and TEA TOWEL among many favorites. Thanks Andrew for parsing — there might be one or two folks on this side of the pond who hear “sawed” as “sword” but I’m not one of them.
    sheffield hatter @50 Two thumbs up for making the “nut-brown” dark ale connection

54. Sheffield Hatter @50 thanks for that – it brings back a long buried memory of singing “The Barley Mow” – I am sure there’s a line about John Barleycorn and the nut-brown bowl in some version of it but given any memory of the song is inevitably accompanied by more than the government recommended quantity of alcoholic units for the night I may be mistaken…

55. Was held up by going for ‘Spring Heeled’ for 3, which I think works quite well……heeled…..geddit?
    Always pleased to see a Paul.

56. Didn’t finish this until this morning- well,it was hot yesterday-and it was worth the wait. Didn’t parse DOCUSOAP or QUAD. The latter was obviously the answer:the former,not so much!
    Nice puzzle though.
    Thanks Paul.

57. Thanks sheffield hatter @50 for clarifying.

    Even though I am a beer drinker (usually draught) here in Canada, that is UK GK beyond my ken. Though Google says that Goose Island makes it in The States.

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